Is there such a thing as "severe poverty" in the UK?

[Niceguy2]

I'm being serious. I'm not talking about poor. Obviously there are plenty of people who either are poor or think they are. But I mean severe poverty.

I just read the Save the Children child poverty report which claims that 1.6million children live in severe poverty. And they define "severe poverty" as a family of 1 child who has an income of less than £7000 (or 2 kids with income < £12k).

But a quick tot up of benefits tells me that a family with 1 child would get the following each year:

Income Support £3412
Tax Credits £2850
Child Benefit £1055
Total 7317

And that's before you take into account housing benefit, council tax, free school dinners etc etc. So to me, no UK family should fall into that definition.

Then the report goes on to say they say someone is living in poverty if basic necessities are not met such as not "having enough shoes", not being able to pay for "home contents insurance" or children missing out on "having friends round" or "school trips".

When I hear "poverty" I think of children living in the streets with no food, not being unable to go on a school trip!

So given all that, is there such a thing as severe poverty in the UK? Or is it as I suspect that some families just can't manage their money?

I'm not trying to argue that £7k is a lot of money. I'm just saying that if that's the definition and the state gives you more, then surely there isn't such a thing?

I agree secondcoming.
I don't think you could do anything but agree.

lovecorrie - if you hadn't bought your own home (that's the key there) and were in a private rent then you would also be getting help with rent. You may still (depending on his income) get some council tax benefit, your tax credits will increase, you will still get child benefit.

The cost of living has increased far quicker than salaries. in 2000 the price of a loaf of bread was 52p..........minimum wage was £3.70, today minimum wage £5.93 - average price for a loaf of bread is around £1.30 - you do the maths.

10yrs ago exH was bringing home under £1k a month. We had one child, (still in nappies). The only benefit we got was child benefit. Living in the south of England (1 hour north of London - prime commuting land at the time). On that salary we ran a car, ate good quality food, had a holiday, and lived very comfortably. Now - well that just under £1k a month would only just cover the rent, basic bills and food (I've actually just found the exact house we rented on right move !). Nothing extra at all, no leeway, no holiday, no car.

Fact is wags have not increased with the cost of basic living.

and - going back to SAF and I's discussion about housing benefit, we are of course assuming there that the person is eligible for benefit in the first place. Many peple aren't allowed to claim benefits. My exSIL and her DH bought there first house in the UK while still on work visas, they didn't have leave to remain, they were not allowed to claim any benefits if the shit hit the fan. Thankfully for them it didn't, but if it had done after they'd bought their first house they would have been left with no means of escape unless they could sell their house (for a profit).

Of course it's also easy to say that they find out information easily on where to get help if they do qualify, but how do they do that? 7 million households in the UK have no internet access, I rarely watch TV these days, but when I did I don't ever recall (apart from tax credits) seeing any information on how to go a about getting help.

And UK literacy are quite shocking really - these are old figures - but relevant all the same I think (and perhaps shows it's not all Labour's fault )

"In 2001, the former Department for Education and Skills launched the Skills for Life strategy with the aim of helping 2.25 million adults by 2010. Two years later, it established by survey that 75% of the working-age adult population had numeracy skills below the level of a good pass at GCSE and 56% had similar literacy skills."

Now - I have good literacy skills (I know they don't show in my writing/typing ) and have been "in the system" for too long a while now, and even I find some of the information about benefits baffling. You need confidence (and self esteem) to be able to push for information, and that and literacy skills to be able o navigate the system and fill in the forms.

You need hope, confidence, aspirations, good access to services and, sometimes, just a stroke of luck, to get you out of poverty.

I'm sure people in the 50's used to say the same thing bout poverty in the early 1900's too.............and those in poverty in the early 1900's probably said the same thing about poverty in the early 1800's (before the workhouses and education for the (lucky) poor - which s shocking as they were, were actually step forward in those days in terms of helping). I bet even in the early 1800's people talked about how easy the poor had it compared to........

And yes - if you'd read my thread you'll see that my parents also packed up shop and moved to the other end of the country away from everyone they knew try and improve things for us as a family. We were the lucky ones.

Not even that long ago swallwed. My mum left school with no qualifications (later transpired she was dyslexic - but this was only picked up on in the 90's). She walked into a catering assistant job (well jobs - she had a few of them) in the 1990's. Yes bottom of the scale, but the pay wasn't bad, and she did a good job of it, so good that when the kitchen manager in one place (only 2 of them worked in the kitchen.............ironically it was the DSS offices canteen ) was on long term sick leave she was asked to take over the managers job while they got someone temporary in to do the kitchen assistant work. The manager then left and my mum was offered the opportunity to take the job on permanently. She turned it down as her maths and literacy skills meant she really really struggled with that side of the work and wasn't sure she could cope with it permanently. (her difficulty with it meant she usually ended up staying 2hr or more after work had officially finished trying to work through the numbers and the paperwork, she was in charge of stock, ordering, invoices the lot and I remember her coming hom in tears sometimes as she was terrified that she'd got even the simplest of things wrong )

BUT - the fact is her employers knew that she had no qualifications, yet were prepared to offer the job, yes she occasionally made small mistakes and they knew that - but they were prepared to find a assistant would be employed to help with that side of things as well). Can you imagine anywhere employing someone that was to be in charge of that sort of work with no GSCE at least C in Maths these days???

yep swallowed - it is depressing. I get nervous thnking about finding work in September once DS3 starts school, and how I'll manage. Yet I possess all the skills and the aspirations "needed" to get myself out of this hole. I've been here (well not on the benefits, but stuck in a place I don't want to be) before and got out of it I know it can happen, I have belief that it can happen.

Imagine how much more depressing it must before for someone that has known no different, has never seen anyone else around them get out of the poverty trap (as even getting a job doesn't mean you're home and dry - the working poor have it extremely hard), can't see any brighter, better future for themselves

that's true swallowed - hadn't thought of that. I did get a job in care work several years back without an NVQ - ad said it was "preferred", and they trained me up on it (though I left before I actually got it). Though I know by the time I left there they were only employing people that already had one.

YOu know recently (well a few months back) did apply for 2 jobs, one in McDonald's, one in a care home as an activities co=ordinator. Both said no experience/qualifications necessary - neither even gave me an interview (I'm still slightly moritified by the fact that McDonalds didn't even think I was worthy of seeing in person ).

i wasn't considered qualified enough to be a part time minimum wage library assistant despite having post graduate level qualifications.

It's not that at all, they probably just liked the other person more than you for some random reason but you cannot say that anymore so they told you it's your fault for not having the piece of paper, it isn't your fault at all.

I don't know why I started reading this thread; there are some grade A cunts on here.

(thread binned off before 2nd page)

actually exH was another case of getting a job with no relevant experience - he came to the UK in 2000 baring knowing how to use a computer, and so slow at typing he used to dictate his emails back home to family for me to type. in 2001 he got a job working for the company that provides the software that most schools use in managing their information. He was actually involved in speaking to the council .IT departments that helped the schools with the software, - I doubt he'd get that job these days with no IT experience at all. 2yrs after stating that job he was actually working for the council .IT department going into schools and fixing their SIMS problems for them (still with no actual qualifications!). Admittedly he got the job based on his "knowledge" of the products from working from the people that make it, but even so - actually going in fiddling around with school computers systems without having anything to "back up" his work.

He's since tried to find work in IT (as it actually did that work for quite a long time) and has been turned down for absolutely everything he's applied for, not even made the interviews stage.

He's now working as an asbestos surveyor .

The fact is that companies say "no experience required" or "blah blah blah qualifcation preferred but training will be given to the right applicant" - but the reality is that there are just too many people that arleady have the experience, and already have the qualication also applying for those jobs that those with nothing find it really hard to find work.

They can't even take on a job for a couple of hours a week to try and build up their experience - as under 16hrs a week and you're basically screwed.

Then there's issue (most affecting parents and carers) of "must be flexible" - so you could end up working any hours, extra days, different shifts. The trend for people to move to find work now means that for many people they have no "back-up" childcare in the form of family and close friends. Families are scattered across the country and although in some places there are very good (and affordable) childcare provisions, in others it is disctintly lacking,

When I was pg with DS3 I nearly split with exH then. At the time IW as working, so I looked into a childminders that would do overnight. It would have cost me more than what I earned (and there was only one in the entire town that would/could d it). I would have been forced to give up work had we actually split at that point in time as I was contracted to nights only and there was no option to change (And if I had my shifts woul dhave been irregular and I would have ended up paying for childcare I wasn't using just to keep the place!).

I looked at a job 1yr ago that was 6am-10am 5 days a week. Weekdays only really really close to where I live. I couldn't find a single childminder (not suprisingly really that could take my children from 5.30/6 in the morning). My SIL who runs a care company offered me work with a client she's taken on who lives in our town - it was mostly evenings - again - no childcare available.

I am already severely restricted in terms of what hours I can work (basically 7am-7pm at a push - and weekdays only) and there are 1000's others in the same position as me up and down the country.

I wILL find something, I know I will, I have no idea how long that takes or how many hours it will mean that my DS1 has to amuse himself during the holidays, but something will eventually come up.

I'm sorry, but just because your on Benefits dose not make you a scrounger. Me and my partner worked our asses off only to find that when I got pregnant, we lost our job and home. We're now waiting on a council house which I'm over the moon about as we can get out of this homeless hostel, but when we get there, we somehow need to pay bills and find basc things like carpets and a cooker. That's not to mention trying to do all this on £400 a month whilst trying to feed ourselves

oh absolutely - I was incredibly lucky - exH and when we split made a deal - he would keep the house (bricks and mortar - not that it's worth anything to him - but if he can cling onto it it's still an asset) and I took the contents - the whole lot. I moved into an empty house and filled it with useable stuff straight away, anything i@ve added to it has been "material" - stuff I could save up for and buy as I felt like it, things that would make it feel more like "my" home but nthing I couldn't live a basic life without.

I've just checked the APR on my Very account, 44.9% APR!! (as mentioned earlier I use it sparingly so don't have to worry about that actual rate!)

Capital One - my emergency credit card - is 34%

My daughter and I live on less than than £6000 and are the richest people we know. Millionaire friends are having a rubbish time of it with all the pressures of Public school fees. Grow your own food, bake, do the supermarket "bargain run". Car boot sales and jumble sales are a hoot and beats the shops hands down. Learn to live on less and life gets a lot simpler.

'My daughter and I live on less than than £6000 and are the richest people we know. '

How do you pay for the roof over your heads? Because we're in a council maisonette and our rent+council tax is over that amount of money/annum.

How about utilities? What do you use for heat? Because we have to use what the landlord provides, we can't just change it and start a fire in here.

How can I grow our own food - there's no garden, no communal garden, our council has no allotments? None.

I'd love to know how we can survive on less than £6000/annum, all five of us, because we are working poor.

We already bake our own bread/cakes, eat leftovers and bargain brands and get clothes on Ebay/boot sales, etc.

Pray tell.

yes expat I was wondering that too. I have worked out that if I had no rent or mortgage to pay (assuming my income was all my own and I'd otherwise be paying it out of earning snad no from benefits). I could live on around £10k a year for 3 children and 1 adult.

£6000 a year is £500 a month.

I have a garden - but I can't grow stuf in it, it's entirely gravelled over, and though my landlord is very lovely I'm not sure he'd appreciate me dragging up all his hard work in making it a low maintanence garden. Nearest place where there are allotments are available is pretty much in accessible without a car.

Likewise - no car boot sales round here, there was one literally down the round (run by my church) - but they're not running them any more because of poor turn out (not suprising really - there was another much larger and more lucrative onea couple of miles drive away). Jumnle sales? Yep - I'm sure DS's would look lovely in the clothes that the old dears at church have donated