I would like to understand the Israeli / Palastine conflict

[wendylovesbob]

Is there a book which is both readable, and has no agenda?

Or can you explain it to me?

When I read about it in the papers I have no idea about the implications or framework of whatever specific thing is being reported.

No

Every single answer you get later on in this thread purporting to have no agenda, will be untrue.

You would be better off asking for the same info AND a declaration of interest from the poster. Then pick out the facts afterwards.

Basically it's all Britain's fault. As many conflicts are around the globe.

glasnost is the only poster on this site with no agenda at all. Completely neutral. oh yes.

My only agenda is the truth cat. Give YOUR take on it.

LOLOLOLOL

What DOES that mean?

er, it means that you are currently a source of great amusement

this site may help you if you have any further problems with internet abbreviations

Whatever, give an opinion instead of deriding others. LOL.

Okay then. Give me your take and declare your agenda.

Or recommend a book or an article or something.

oh? my opinion? more orders?

ok

1. you appear to have no sense of humour
2. you appear to have little self knowledge and perception of how you may appear to others
3. "whatevs" is probably better in this context than "whatever" which is a bit weak 4)here are some brilliant russian military hats for you, lots of important gold braid, right up your street I should think

Someone give a proper answer!! I want to know too! I always feel so ignorant when I here it discussed.

Ha I really am ignorant...... When I hear it discussed......

i watched 'the promise' on channel 4 the other day, sort of made it understandable

Wow. I've seen this question brought up before and it usually gets filled pretty quickly by people who feel strongly for one side or the other. But this one is just weird! WTF are you all on about!?!

Wendy

here's the wiki article

but you should read the discussion page. It's basically a health warning which says this is the biggest can of worms you can imagine, and there are NO neutral opinions on it.

I'm serious in that you should read lots of stuff, weigh it up in your own mind, and question, question, question all the time. Why? is the word you must have in your head. Do not reach any conclusions without being prepared to change your mind many times, over many a long year.

Ignore facile posters like glasnost. You are honest enough to say "I don't know", so don't agree with the first thing that someone like that comes up with just because they have a fixed idea in their heads.

Annie - I can't be arsed with the usual crap from twerps so managed to get in at post 2!

At least there might be a range of sensible opinions with reasons and interests stated.

We are all here to learn.

I am not here to be fed crap by a person with an unstated agenda however, and WEndy does not deserve that either.

And IME, anyone who says "My only agenda is the truth" is full of crap

Wikipedia's coverage of it isn't too bad for a general overview. Here is a good place to start but there are lots and lots of links for more detail.

Inevitably it's not entirely unbiased but I've never seen a single unbiased history of the subject. Both sides have their own interpretations of history and events and it is those interpretations that are the driving force behind an awful lot of the conflict. And don't forget that all this is taking place in the wider context of both middle-eastern politics and global politics.

Declaration of interest - I think both sides have behaved appallingly. The atrocities committed by the PLO, Hamas etc are impossible to ignore. But on balance the combination of the sheer body-count of dead Palestinians, the blatantly illegal annexation of land, and the creation of what is effectively a state of apartheid, mean that my sympathies tend to lie more towards the Palestinian cause than the Israeli one.

As far as I know, this is the story. Are you sitting comfortably?

The Palestinians were quietly cultivating their gardens in Palestine. At the end of the war there were lots of Jews who needed somewhere to live. A (still) colonial power, not a million miles away decided to dump the Jews in a land that was already populated. (And there were other reasons why the area was chosen, of course).

Now, everyone felt sorry for the Jews and surely everyone agreed they needed somewhere to live. But instead of coexisting peacefully, both the Israeli Jews and the Palestinians started blowing each other up. This was made worse by secret backing of the Israeli Jews by the US and UK and the open backing of the Palestinians by the Arab bloc.

Also, nowadays the Jews seem to be building more and more houses and taking up more and more land. Plus they are heavily armed and have nuclear power, while the Palestinians are poorer and live like second-class citizens.

I don't know whose fault it is, or who I feel most sorry for. I really don't have an agenda. But until the leaders of both sides dig themselves out of their entrenched positions and sit down and talk about it, they will continue to kill each other.

I think this is more or less accurate, but if anyone has another take on it, please say your piece!

Think I agree with Snorbs.

Snorbs has it right but if I may add:

The Zionists ignore every UN resolution and the USA supports them by using their UN veto.

They have attempted to turn Ghaza into a concentration camp including denying medical aid and the right to leave to the inhabitants. Inflicted the last military attack (operation Cast Lead) which included shelling hospitals and schools. Illegally built the "security wall" and annexed more Palestinian land.

Hamas and the PLO have played into the Zionists hands with their actions but they are seen by their people as freedom fighters not terrorists.

Blame on both sides but far more on the Zionist side.

mellowfruitfulness has the gist of it. Impossible to do much more without writing a large tome!

But it goes back even further than that. The Jews left/ were forced out in Roman times after a failed rebellion and destruction of the temple. They 'wandered' for centuries - the Diaspora - and were rejected from several countries and persecuted. they always regarded Palestine as 'theirs'.

Meanwhile, after a thousand years or so the area became part of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire and remained so until the British kicked the Ottomans out in WW1. (See Lawrence of Arabia).

Some Jews went back then but the Brits had been allied to the various Arab tribes who had helped against the Turks and it all became a mess.

It got messier after WW2 when the concentration camps were liberated and the survivors of the Holocaust were determined to make a state of their own. The British tried to hold them back but they resorted to terror tactics against the British and it was impossible to keep the two sides apart. (The Promise shows this very well indeed.)

A poor settlement left Jerusalem partitioned and and Israeli state on the east bank of the Jordan river as well as a couple of excellent seaports. The Palestinians either fled or were pushed into the west bank.

In 1967 the Israelis went to war and in six days took the Sinae from Egypt and the west bank too. Israel had now hugely expanded and flexed its muscles, shown that it had a very powerful military and, most importantly, now had all the water because it controlled both banks of the Jordan.

Palestinians also resorted to terror tactics and the Israelis carried out appalling reprisals in refugee camps in Beirut.

Now the Israelis have all the best land, the water resources and military power whereas the Palestinians are penned up in barren land (two separate bits) with no access to port facilities.

Unfortunately there seems to be no basis for dialogue, no room for forgiveness and no chance of controlling the hardliners on either side. Both sides believe the land is theirs.

It's a religious and political conflict but it's also very much to do with control of economic resources.

I might have mixed up east and west banks!

I don't have any particular axe to grind. There has been terrible injustice and violence from both sides and I can't see a satisfactory solution. One has to be found though because the failure to broker a lasting peace will always provide fuel for extremism.

It's still Britain's fault ultimately.

You cannot equate the victims (Palestinians) with the perpetrators (Israelis).