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Original poster

If 200 of your own MPs and peers disagree with you.....

26 replies

Chil1234 · 16/03/2011 20:09

.... are you still in control? [[
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12754592 Labour AV rebellion]] If Milliband can't even convince those closest to him including 19 of his front bench, that a yes vote for AV is a good idea, should we regard him as a lame duck leader?

OP posts:
freshmint · 16/03/2011 20:10

did you need that situation to come to that conclusion?

Grin
Original poster
Chil1234 · 16/03/2011 20:27

True :) He does appear to be talking to himself these days. Milliband Major must be chuckling quietly somewhere...

OP posts:
freshmint · 16/03/2011 21:17

he is talking to himself and frankly not making much sense

and suffers under the major disadvantage that the economic shite we are all in is due to labour's bollocky crapness

bit tricky to occupy the moral high ground really

dotnet · 17/03/2011 13:28

Hm. Weird. That is happening with the LibDems, too.

Nick Clegg didn't get the LibDems (most of them) to follow his lead about crazy tuition fees for students, when they voted, and the same thing has happened to him about the NHS as well.

Both parties seem to be leaders without followers!

And as for Cameron... well, he's just on another planet, isn't he?

Very very weird times. (Rubs chin thoughtfully).

Original poster
Chil1234 · 17/03/2011 17:36

I think Cameron's winning at the moment. At least his MPs are still on his side....

OP posts:
GabbyLoggon · 18/03/2011 14:42

I suppose a faction within the Tory Right never liked the Coalition idea. (they will probably not force the issue)

The Lib dems have most to lose , unless they can persuade Cameron to do a joint ticket election next time round. (It is not one of the options really)

slug · 18/03/2011 16:32

Since AV wasn't really part of the Labour manifesto, then I think it's healthy for a party to have a bit of free thinking and dissent.

DamnYouAutocorrect · 18/03/2011 16:37

I think it just tells you that Labour MPs know AV won't be good for them (makes it harder for some of them to hold on to their seats, and they're worried about possible coalition partners now LibDems have gone the full Tory). MPs in self-interest shocker.

The AV referendum was always going to be a free conscience thing. Don't think this says anything about EM;s leadership, though his leadership is questionable in other ways I think.

Thought it was in the manifesto Slug? A referendum was anyway?

newwave · 18/03/2011 22:35

Correct me if I am wrong but this is a free vote issue, both the Tories and Labour have MP's in opposite camps.

As for EM's leadership he is playing the perfect game, just sitting back and watching the demise of the LibDems and the Tories becoming more and more despised.

EM does not need to do or say much as the actions of the ConDems speak far louder than words.

Original poster
Chil1234 · 18/03/2011 23:29

EM isn't playing any 'game' as far as I can see. He's the invisible man. Pops up to say what a great idea AV is (honest), gets howled down and disappears again. Has to support Cameron for playing a blinder on the UN/Libya situation but as Cameron's leader credentials get stronger, Milliband looks even more petulant sixth-former amateurish by comparison.

At some point he has to stop complaining and come up with some ideas of his own. Four years is a long time to wait for an election and I don't think he's going to be leading them into it...

OP posts:
newwave · 18/03/2011 23:43

Chil

Sorry but call me Daves credentials are not getting stronger and with the mass unemployment which is now ever growing under his auspices and his deliberate damage to society he will become a figure of hate and derision.

He has done well in regard to Libya but as the general population has had enough of wars I doubt it will go on the plus side of his balance sheet.

Your "reading" EM wrong, the ConDems have said it will be a 5 year term and every day they give Labour more ammunition to be used at a later date.

When the AV vote is lost then the coalition will fall apart as the non ministerial LD MP's see nothing but electoral oblivion on the horizon, far better they leave the coalition and try to regain some political credibility.

Lots to look forward to in the May elections when I predict the LD's will be decimated.

huddspur · 18/03/2011 23:46

He was never going to get all of his MPs on side because some people in the Labour Party do feel that FPTP is the best system for elections and if you want to be cyncical about it FPTP is biased towards the Labour Party and turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

newwave · 18/03/2011 23:56

hudd Fair point.

I want AV in fact I want proportional representation but I will vote no as I dont want Glegg to benefit from his gutless and despicable actions.

BTW thanks in advance for the 3 points o:

huddspur · 19/03/2011 00:04

I agree with you regarding full PR but surely the country would benefit not Clegg.

You won't get anything tomorrow, we need to send a message to Madrid.

newwave · 19/03/2011 00:10

hudd, Clegg will be able to claim a victory if the yes camp wins which will strengthen the coalition which I want to fall apart.

Sorry but with Gallas out your defence is suspect. We will get a draw at least.

huddspur · 19/03/2011 00:15

Surely the constitution and democratic process are more important than party politics.

I think Gallas is going to be fit to play as are Bale, Van der Vaart and Defoe will be motivated to inflict misery on you.

newwave · 19/03/2011 00:23

hudd, under normal circumstances I would agree with the but the damage and misery which will be inflicted by the ConDems in the next 4+ years must be stopped at any cost.

We have beaten you twice this season so a third time is on the cards.

huddspur · 19/03/2011 00:27

If the referendum is lost electoral reform will be on the backburner for at least 30 years I would have thought.

You've beaten us once and you won't again. You should enjoy the game tomorrow as you won't be playing us next season although you should have a trip to Millwall to look forward to.

newwave · 19/03/2011 00:35

Yes it will be unless the next election ends up with a LibLab government.

TWICE we also beat you to the best stadium in London, My ST will come with a telescope :o

huddspur · 19/03/2011 00:39

I don't think it matters what the next Government is, if the referendum is lost then I see their being little prospect of their being electoral reform before I retire and I'm only 25. I think to throw away this chance of reform on the basis of a dislike of Clegg would be short-sighted.

You can have that stadium, other than the chairman I don't think anyone at Spurs wanted it.

HHLimbo · 19/03/2011 11:22

AV will force MPs to work harder - hence some of them feeling a bit resistant.

Many good MPs are already elected with a majority in their constituency. This should be the case for all MPs. If only 1/3 of the people support you then you dont deserve to keep your seat.

HHLimbo · 19/03/2011 11:23

AV means all MPs will be elected with a majority of support in their constituency.

DamnYouAutocorrect · 19/03/2011 11:34

Grin at huddspur and newwave's football/AV combo

Agree with huddspir, I'm actually quite surprised how many Labour supporters are prepared to scupper chances of electoral reform for short-term political advantage. Seems like a petulant urge to give Clegg a kicking because Labourites thought they had a divine right to LibDem support in a hung parliament. Meanwhile they could condemn the country to decades more FPTP, which is the worst, least democractic voting system there is. Priorities, people? We can give the Coalition a kicking in other ways, and LibDems are going to be mulllered at the next election whatever the voting system is.

HHLimbo · 19/03/2011 15:32

It was in the labour manifesto too so wouldnt it equally be a victory for labour?

HHLimbo · 19/03/2011 15:33

Most importantly it will be a victory for all the people of britain, to not be ruled by a minority interest party.