TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

[OrangeBernard]

Who's going? I've just booked my train tickets. Its my first protest, any advice or tips? Bit worried about kettling.

TCNY, it sounds like you have swallowed the lies of the guilty ones that punishing them would harm us more than them. They've been pulling the wool over your eyes for years and even after pulling off the heist of the century, you still believe them. You would have probably made a case for Al Capone.

Unless and until someone lays out an alternative, costed agenda it's hard to work out what is the best way ahead.

Is anyone ever going to give us an alternative plan?

Oh well it you going to quote economists. There pretty much nothing you can't find one economist or another to agree with.

I'm interested in a dialogue with Thereiver....... How come you feel that strongly about public services? Which services do you think should be cut? I think it's important to talk about how a person gets to have a specific opinion. Would you like to comment?

Please read CinnabarRed's thread that I linked above - it's really interesting on corporation tax, and shows (via well supported reasoning) the flaws in Monbiot.

To counter wubbly's link (by anti-cuts campainers)

conservativehome.blogs.com/files/budget-in-context.pdf

Claig - No, I'm making no assertion either way, I'm saying the principle of least harm is more important that that of punishment.

What "side" would I be on coalition? I'm on the side of justice. End of.

They are big fans of referenda. Why didn't they give us a referendum on which cuts we wanted to make and who we wanted to tax more? Instead of them deciding that foreign aid should be ringfenced and even increased and that it was more important than DLA, the public could have decided what to do with its money.

that video on the false economy website is laughable

Dittany - You said "It's even a lie about how much they contribute to the Exchequer - Aberdeen City pays more in corporation tax than the City of London."

So I took "Aberdeen City pays more in corporation tax than the City of London" as the fact you were asserting to support the conclusion ""It's even a lie about how much they contribute to the Exchequer".

That conclusion doesn't follow from that fact as Corportation Tax isn't all they contribute to the Exchequer.

If I've misunderstood you, then I'm sorry.

But the principle of least harm is being pushed by those who benefitted from the bailout, by those who say they will up sticks and leave the country if we impose taxes on their bonusues. They've got fancy offices and fancy cars, but it doesn't mean they don't make fancy claims. Believing them is like believing that Ronnie Kray maintained law and order in the East End.

totally irrelevant but from what I've seen/heard and also from looking at MN profiles it tends to be younger people who are pro cuts.

mmmwine, you realise, don't you, that the tories fully supported the level of spending of the Labour government and were committed to matching them?

You're right dittany. The bankers call themselves "masters of the universe", just like James Cagney did, when he said "look at me, ma, top of the world, ma, top of the world".

Glasnost - Justice for whom? Measured how? Saying you are for Justice is like saying you believe in fairness and think murder should be illegal

Everyone is in favour of these things.

Labour and Tories both want less sick people, less poor people, the country to be richer, less crime etc. etc.

They disagree on the way of achieving these things.

There is undoubtedly some corruption and graft in politics but FAR less than in most other countries - people DON'T go into Politics (generally) in order to make money for themselves. If they wanted to do that there are much easier ways. Most politicians actually do want to make life better - regardless of what party they represent.

And Cagney said that was just before everything went up in flames, just like the banksters did.

Is all this sudden interset in this thread a cunning ploy to waylay protesters? Get out on the demo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These cuts are unecessary, vicious and ideological. Not alot else to add.

Bar these suggestions for alternatives to the cuts though.

Make the present, temporary, banker?s bonus windfall tax permanent, raising in excess of £500 million a year.
Extend the banker?s bonus windfall tax to other financial institutions ? such as hedge funds and private equity houses. An extension to hedge funds alone would raise in excess of £700 million.
Introduce a short-term ceiling on total remuneration, given as both cash and share options, saving around £520 million from RSB bonus payments in this year alone.
Set a 50% income tax band for gross incomes over £100,000, raising £4.7 billion annually, or £2.3 billion more than the sum raised by setting the band at its present £150,000.
Uncap National Insurance Contributions, so that they are paid at 11% on all incomes, including investment income above £110 per week. The extra tax take would be £9.1 billion.
Introduce minimum tax rates of 40% and 50% on incomes above £100,000 and £150,000 respectively in order to mitigate the ability of higher earners to displace tax burdens. The tax rates set out above would raise an additional £14.9 billion annually.
Institute a 0.05% financial transaction tax on instant sterling transfers between UK financial institutions, raising some £38 billion a year, sufficient, if devoted to deficit reduction alone, to halve the deficit by 2013/14.
Take concentrated action to bear down on tax lost within the existing system ? the £25 billion which goes missing through tax avoidance; the £28 billion of tax bills which the Treasury Select Committee (November 2009) concluded were agreed but had not yet been paid; the £70 billion which the Public and Commercial Services Union has estimated to be lost through tax evasion, such as illegal non-declaration of income on which tax might be due, or fraudulent claims for unjustified tax relief.
Separate retail and investment banking, removing the ?moral hazard? in which recklessness within finance capitalism is bailed out by the tax payer.
Establish a High Pay Commission to apply a permanent public interest test into the setting of senior salaries.

Happy demoing!!!!!!!!!

In other words the 'Tories eat babies/Labour want to take all your money' narrative is childish, unhelpful and untrue.

We're all wise to the fact that Labour are just the same, they are all in it together. We're not fooled by their speeches, just as we aren't fooled by the crocodile tears of the bankers.