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Does Cameron's "Big Society"....

81 replies

RMCW · 14/02/2011 18:39

...remind anyone else of "The Fourth Sector" from that episode of "The thick of it"??????????


OP posts:
jackstarb · 14/02/2011 19:12

Well that's not so surprising. The Thick of It was a satire of New Labour, and the Big Society draws heavily on ideas initially developed by New Labour circa 1997-2000.

claig · 14/02/2011 20:10

What is teh Fourth Sector all about? I wish I had actually watched The Thick of It.

Just watched the former Labour Party donor, Sir Ronnie Cohen, on Channel 4 News. He will be an advisor for the new Big Society Bank. He said that this is not a new policy, it is at least 10 years old, and Labour agreed with it. They just gave it lower priority. So, it sounds like jackstarb is right. Much of this accords with New Labour thinking. It doesn't surprise me, and Labour opposition to it may just be theatre and acting.

Jon Snow actually said to him, so does this mean that we now have an all party coalition. I am starting to think that we always did have. Now I know what "we are all in it together" means. It means that all the politicians and parties are in it together.

RMCW · 14/02/2011 20:33

....I find it all very scary..that a show satirising politics and politicans is providing ideas for policies Hmm

OP posts:
georgeorwell · 14/02/2011 21:24

claig how lovely to agree with you. but you should have preceded "politicians" and "parties" with the word MAINSTREAM. there ARE parties who are not in this together but have been marginalised over the years. at least you'll know now not to call new labour socialists again. they've not been remotely that since before kinnock. i've more respect for real tories than ambiguous new labour types. the only opposition to the condems is genuine left politics - not feigned outrage from the new labour lot who set this all in motion in the first place by being intensely relaxed with extreme wealth.

claig · 14/02/2011 21:29

Smile I agree with you. It's one big coalition, and the alternative parties have no chance of being heard. I wouldn't vote for them anyway, but I think we do need proportional representation system to have a real democracy.

jackstarb · 14/02/2011 21:42

RMCW - I don't think Cameron got his ideas from 'The Thick of It'. Much of it came from Blairite thinking (based on US experiences - I think) from 10 years ago.

As George states this was never traditional 'socialist' approach. And many Labour types never really bought into it. They put pressure on Labour to focus on the large state and welfare dependancy model.

KissMyMarigolds · 14/02/2011 22:10

It would be a great idea if call me Dave wasnt cutting all the public sector and making us mere pourpers work for free instead.

georgeorwell · 14/02/2011 22:14

theres not much else to add when real life politics has satirised and transcended satire. depressingly orwellian innit? only a revolution could save us now but every bugger'll be too busy slaving and then volunteering to kick one off. its so sickeningly ironic that cameron talks of a big society that he and his filthy rich mates play no actual part in and view us all from their lofty towers. theirs is a small sealed off society which hasto plunder ours to keep itself stinking rich. god, the bastards.

Singinginmychains · 14/02/2011 22:17

I don't think it matters where it comes from, tbh.

But what happens when there is a political class (in thrall to vested interests) that goes against the will of the people? Maybe the Egyptians could tell us.

Did any of us vote for this? I can't remember it being on any manifesto that I read.

georgeorwell · 14/02/2011 22:25

noone voted for this but then again noone voted for this ideologically driven right wing government as it had no majority. a very british coup. then dave has the front to go on about democracy wrt egypt.

LegoStuckinmyhoover · 14/02/2011 22:30

just wondered, does anyone know what voluntary work cammeron/osbourne et al do/ ever did?

complimentary · 14/02/2011 22:59

Yes I do. Cameron voluntarily staggered into the Bullingham Club, when at Oxford, notorious for it's 'binge drinking' according to Wikipedia.

No, I cannot find anywhere that cites Cameron has done voluntary work. Others have, but not him.

How many MNs have done voluntary work![sceptical]

complimentary · 14/02/2011 23:01
claig · 14/02/2011 23:07

They have volunteered to run the country.

LegoStuckinmyhoover · 14/02/2011 23:08

The thing is that MNs are not preaching to everyone else to say that they should! and MNs are not simultaneously lining the pockets of the banks to fund us all doing it either.

RMCW · 15/02/2011 08:39




Do any of you think this coalition will last the full 5 years???

Jst heard on BBC Breakfast news that Barclays have posted a multi billion pound profit for the last year.

Will we get any of our taxes back then????? Hmm


OP posts:
claig · 15/02/2011 09:44

Yes, I think it will definitely last the full term, and probably longer. That is what is intended, in order to make the planned changes. We now see that Big Society was also part of Labour's thinking, and we see many ex-Labour bigwigs advising the Coalition etc., so the opposition looks hollow, although it will continue to ham it up for full effect.

georgeorwell · 15/02/2011 09:54

totally agree with claig on this one even though im sure (s)he's happy at the prospect of the big society (more inequality and the effective privatisation of all services) whereas im terrified as had been planning on returning to uk with baby and am now seriously revising all that. so hope they dont go the full term but agree they will and the changes will be devastaing and pretty much irreversable. as i said previously: only solution is a revolution but that aint gonna happen.

cameron et al are much more dangerous than thatch.

claig · 15/02/2011 09:57

I don't like the Big Society, I think it is spin for cuts. But I think the opposition secretly agree with it, so it will happen. The Big Society Bank shows that there is serious intent behind it.

Eleison · 15/02/2011 10:00

Good article here about the status of the Big Soc as a cover for making more and more opportunities available to the private sector to get its claws into public service delivery, and also about the limitations of the Big Society Bank (which Polly Toynbee also has a good article about in today's Guardian)

Agree that Big Soc is simply a continuation of Labour's use of the voluntary sector as a figleaf for marketisation of public service delivery. They have been spectacularly crap at giving a strong critique of Big Soc rhetoric.

georgeorwell · 15/02/2011 10:27

sorry then claig to put words in your i'd presumed u pretty much agree with everything "the wise men" wanna implement. good to see u've seen the light!

georgeorwell · 15/02/2011 10:28

put words in ur MOUTH i meant obv

claig · 15/02/2011 10:34

Smile when I use the term 'The Three Wise Men' for Cameron, Osborne and Gove, it is very slightly tongue in cheek. But when I use the term 'The Three Stooges' for Miliband, Balls and Johnson, then it is said with serious intent.

georgeorwell · 15/02/2011 11:51

so claig your professed admiration for all things propagated in the daily mail is tongue in cheek too then? hoorah for that!

looking at these threads though a theme's emerging which is that even though the tories are much more in yer face re. implementing this radical neocon agenda the so called opposition has been complicit in this while in power and still is complicit in this.

so what REAL opposition to this natural progression of thatcherite/ reaganism is there that can make an actual difference? that's why most decent people opt out in sheer exasperation at it all and voting abstention is on the rise.

claig · 15/02/2011 12:00

Yes, it is tongue in cheek. I do it to wind the progressives up, because they all hate the Daily Mail, and they think they are superior because they read the Guardian.

I agree with you. I don't believe there is an opposition. It is all theatre. They are all in it together. Major started a study looking into fees for university education, and Labour implemented it, and the Tories have increased it. When the Tories eventually leave in 15 years' time, then Labour will probably increase it again. Harriet Harman started the increase in pensionable age, and Iain Duncan Smith has accelerated it. All this talk of Tory bastards obscures the fact that it is not down to the Tories. Everything is theatre, there is no opposition.

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