The state of a nation

[yelloutloud]

The state of this country is thanks to the public/private schools. Little Johnny is born and nanny looks after him. He then goes to a lovely well maintained school with fantastic facilities and good teachers because mummy and daddy have bags of money ( how much tax did they declare?) Has lovely holidays and is advised by his teachers, parents and family friends about how to get into the best university and job. Probably studies PPE at Oxbridge and gets a 'job through his contacts and within a short space of time is an MP telling us all how to live and hat is best for us all. How he does this is incredible as he probably has never spoken to anyone normal, never mind live anywhere normal but he still knows what we all need. Equally the case for little Henrietta, of course. State schools and thte state of this nation would improve within 6 months if those with money and priveledge had to use state schools. No private school should have charitable status. To allow everyone an equal chance it has to start ith the type of education we provide.

Yell, Hitting the nail on the head does not even come close to how accurate your post is. I totally agree with every word.

The Tories on this site will probably be along to justify the rights and privileges of the rich and powerful and some will explain how they are not elitist and live on rat soup so they can send their offspring to an
Independent school because they are far to "precious" to mix with the hoi polloi at a state school.

Instead of moaning about how little johnny has ruined the country because he milked mummy & daddy's contacts rather than ability, why don't both of you stand as MP's instead?

Surely with your breadth of knowledge of the "real world" and state school education you'll be able to connect with "real people" and you'll be PM & deputy PM in no time?

Newwave. Being from working class stock made good you are dead right, I would not send my children to a second class state school. I've bettered myself and why not?

The OP has a point, most MP's who have been to Public Schools don't understand the plight of the poor because they have never been there (unlike me) The working classes are not MPs because they are not articulate/intelligent enough to represent this country. (Due to a shit education,lack of encouragement, both in and out of school, lack of aspiration, from teachers/parent/parents.)

The well off and I include myself in that category will still use public schools whether they have charitable status or not. If the state schools were not shite, I would not send my DC to independant schools, which I have to pay for to save you MONEY!!

The working classes are not MPs because they are not articulate/intelligent enough to represent this country. (Due to a shit education,lack of encouragement, both in and out of school, lack of aspiration, from teachers/parent/parents.)

Comp do you really believe that statement, really, are all state schools really shite. My kids have done well at the local comp, both got to good uni's. The eldest has a good job in the City [hmmm]

Surely with your breadth of knowledge of the "real world" and state school education you'll be able to connect with "real people" and you'll be PM & deputy PM in no time?

claig, hardly, cant see myself being parachuted into a safe seat by any party :) and i have a habit of speaking the truth, or at least the truth as I see it.

I have thought of running as a councillor but you need to be a Tory or a member of the Ratepayers alliance where i live.

Anyway as i seem to be annoying Comp and others you will be pleased to know I am off on my winter sun holiday to Tenerife for 10 days next week :o :o

I have thought of running as a councillor but you need to be a Tory or a member of the Ratepayers alliance where i live.

To have any chance of winning that is.

Newwave. I'm already heavily involved in politics, but I have two children and my time is short. I know i come across as flippant sometimes, but I do care about the plight of the working classes (my husband says I have a chip about it! but then who listens to him!) whom I'm afraid with others are not represented by the political elite.
Until we have more people like me, who are working class, have experienced life, and are educated then the status quo will remain.

At the moment we have career politicians on all sides who don't give a damn.
If you feel strongly STAND, make your presence felt. It is the only way forward.
I thought of going to Tenerife myself in the half term, If I overhear a conversation in a 5 star hotel about politics, I will know it's you! Happy Hols!

Have a good holiday

Comp, 4 star only I am afraid :o

claig, thank you

Those of us in the 'real world' know there are good state schools. Surely we shouldn't be arguing about that. Shouldn't they be good? The problem is the difference in money being spent on private schools and the influence they exert. We have to live together so why don't we study together?

Interesting thread.

All British Prime Ministers between Ted Heath and John Major were state school educated. None before; none since, and more Tories than Labour.

Are you holding this up as a time of notably better government?

There is only one way of ensuring equality of opportunity in education, make changes to the law that will ensure that all private schools closed.

And another way: make all state schools so good that only the insane wouldn't send their children to them. I'd like to see higher standards for all.

One way of raisng standards very quickly would be to up the intake of children into state schools from wealthy and middle class backgrounds.

I'd don't have the same faith as you that that is what would happen. Two main reasons:

a) the State system wouldn't be able to cope with the influx and the system would be very badly broken for some years (the laws governing the disposal of charitably held assets, and the individual historic nature of many bequests to schools means those assets cannot be moved to state control, and there would be no means to compel private businesses to surrender assets to the government).

b) the children thus affected would probably be destined for a very few schools, with narrow geographical catchments, and massively inflated house prices. Grammars would be even more disproportionally affected. Those schools might see some further improvement. Most wouldn't.

If we have to use state schools, I suppose the OP thinks we also have to use state health services.

The problem is both the NHS and state comprehensives are often rubbish (though obviously not all in).

I'm foreign and went NHS for my first child and the service was poor: chaotic delivery, ill educated health workers who only had one solution to all problems, confused community midwives. It was only when we went private, we actually started to make progress and sorted problems out.

My DH is British and went to a state comprehensive. Same problem: Poorly educated teachers who despised ambition and ability. Violent and stupid pupils who somehow deserved all the school's time and effort when those who made the effort and had ability were totally ignored.

Sorry but my DH and I want the option to go private if that's what our family requires. We want to use private if we don't like the ideological crap that state schools/health services spout. We both pay taxes toward this stuff but if we don't want to use them and can pay another provider, what business is it of yours?

'One way of raisng standards very quickly would be to up the intake of children into state schools from wealthy and middle class backgrounds' How would this work then?

As Onimo states, the state system would be overcrowded; and how would that help standards? I have seen students move from state to private (a great improvement in that lad's performance and attitude) and from private to state (his attitude and willingness to work dropped and he did worse at GCSE than he should have).

Would you sack all the state school teachers and employ the private school ones? What if the private school ones don't have a teaching qualification? How many parents would employ tutors and home ed because they don't want to use state provision? How are you going to provide the same wrap around child care that private schools (preps in particular) provide for the working parents? What about those in boarding schools who have to board due to family circumstances?

"The working classes are not MPs because they are not articulate/intelligent enough to represent this country. (Due to a shit education,lack of encouragement, both in and out of school, lack of aspiration, from teachers/parent/parents.)"

Or is it that there are wider social issues at play here?

I do not, for one second believe that those in private/been to private school, are more intelligent at all.

for more equality, two things need to happen; make the gap between the richest and the poorest narrower by a long chalk and make education fair for all and not selective [that is not on an economic basis or otherwise]. But, that isn't going to happen, in fact it is set to get worse with Academies and free schools and 'technical schools'. equally, a narrower economic gap is not going to happen either.

LSH This country has spent more on education than ever before. Still children are being turned out of school without being able to read and write. I have already said that the standard of education is sub standard.

If state schools were all great, we would not need independent schools.

My son attends one of the top primaries in the country 'oustanding'and has a huge waiting list for children to get in there. In fact parents move here to get the children into the school!

This does not stop the school having a guideline for 'marking' The guideline is basically the teacher only has to mark the four mistakes and then can forget the rest. It isto stop the dreaded red pen in its tracks! It does not help the children. They let children live in a comfort zone without pushing them It does however make it quicker for the teacher to mark. I myself went through the state system all of my school life.(state schools were bad then, and worse now!) It is not about elitism it is about getting the best education possible for my children. I am saying that those who are tutored and go to the 'best' state schools/independent schools pass entrance exams which others would not. I pay taxes for the state educational system, but will not use it because of what I have said and what siasi says. No I don't want my children in with kids who lack ambition//have no manners/punch the teachers, funny isn't it? All of you who criticise those who use public schools have a brass neck. Our taxes are in effect paying for your children, not OURS!

complimentary, I did not mean to offend you and was not critisizing people who choose to use private schools either!

i was simply saying that for children to have more of an eqaul chance, then there should be more equality in society generally and a non selective education system. I also said that this was never going to happen.

By the way, i think you will find that my taxes have contributed to educate the teachers who teach at private schools, as have yours. Also, my taxes, and yours, are contributing to their pensions, despite them being employed by the 'private sector'. funny that.

We all pay.

No offence was taken.
I agree in part, but the people who are sending their children privately, save the state a lot of money. Conversely my taxes pay for whatever a state educated pupil will need and there are a hell of lot more state pupils than private.
I would myself like a more equal society, as I feel a more equal society would have less crime. Also people would feel better about themselves.

As I say if the state system did not have its politically correct ways of teaching and child centred policies I would of course use them. If the children were nice and well mannered, of course I would use them. Let me get it straight there are lovely intelligent mannered children using state education, who are held back by other children. Why should my husband and I work so hard so that our children can have a private education if we did not feel it necessary? As I've said my son attends a state primary, but in the last years children have left his class and been replaced by some disruptive children. The school can do nothing. This affects my son and other childrens' education. It has upset the class,children, parents. Nothing can be done apart form reprimanding them. Unlike a private school, where you have 'three strikes and you're out!'.Disruptive behaviour is not tolerated.

For many, many reasons I will choose a public school. I would hate to think they were not around. Myself and other parents at least have a choice, even if that choice costs a fortune. I feel sorry for the parent who has great kids being held back by teaching methods that don't work.By unruly pupils that can't be got rid off, and have their children have the daily influence of bad manners, low aspiration and hopelessness.

Perhaps some parents have found great secondary schools and I'm glad for them. I applaud any school that gives the best to our children. British people and our children are some of the nicest/brightest people in the world, it's a shame that schooling can be spoiled by a minority of children. It's a shame the schools are so PC they can't even give our children pride in being British(heaven forbid!). This is not the case in public schools. Sorry to go on, but the state of this country and schooling is very close to my heart.