How many

[newwave]

With the current and coming cuts there can be really no doubt that this will result in avoidable death and early deaths due to cuts in the following services:

Ambulances
Fire service
Police
Social services with emphasis on child protection and care for the old

Add to that longer NHS times for diagnosis and treatment and a lack of midwives.

Then question is (mostly for the Tories amongst us) how may deaths is a price worth paying to meet Government debt reduction targets.

No government deliberately sets out to kill citizens in the name of cost-saving. 'More money' doesn't necessarily mean 'better' either. The situation we have today after 13 years of lavish spending by the last government isn't exactly inch-perfect is it? Children die when on the at risk register, patients are left on hospital trolleys, police waste time undercover, etc. I know you think that all conservatives are baby-eating monsters with a sideline in kicking old ladies and stealing sweets off children but that's the problem with letting obsession cloud your judgement....

Ruthless pruning in the police force to get rid of the bad ones (psychotic types, I mean, like the idiot who dragged wheelchair bound student Jody MacIntyre out of his chair and along the ground - TWICE - at the December 9 student demonstration - would do no harm. We can't need public servants like that. We can't trust them, either, in the course of day to day policing on the streets - far too much of a liking for violence, and far too casual about twisting the truth.

If the police numbers were reduced by conscientious vetting of the existing force to oust the bad ones, our police service would be better and more worthy of the public's trust. I think it's arguable that the loss of the dead wood (by dead wood I mean those bad police drawn to the force primarily to wield power)- would make not a jot of difference to public safety. I do believe police numbers CAN be cut safely.

There's a hell of a lot of scope for improvement in the police force, as anyone who has recently attended student demonstrations will know. The wrong 'uns who currently exist in the force are just a waste of space and money, and dangerous.

Ambulances, fire service, social services - cutting back on these is a LOT more worrying, and not in the same league at all.

By the same token, the ambulance service has a few rogue operators that need weeding out.... Ambulance Man Chose Not To Attend 999 Call Some firemen aren't above dubious working practices either.

No government deliberately sets out to kill citizens in the name of cost-saving.

Maybe not but Tory ones are rather careless and indifferent about the consequences of it's policies.

Child, Do you honestly deny that the cuts will cause pain, suffering and deaths that could be avoided, seriously do you? or is it a price worth paying to reduce the deficit.

You can argue about who's fault the deficit is or that the Tories have no choice (ha ha) but any open minded person would recognise my prognosis of the result of the cuts is correct.

Not an obsession with just the recognition that Tory governments are unjust and uncaring of the damage they do to all but the rich and powerful.

Sorry, "Chil" not child.

Newwave. 'Child' was that a Freudian slip?

Many elderly and others died under the Labour Parties administration. I can assure you the Labour Party certainly does not have the monopoly on caring!

Newwave. 'Child' was that a Freudian slip?, no the spell checker :o

Many elderly and others died under the Labour Parties administration. I can assure you the Labour Party certainly does not have the monopoly on caring!

I agree that NL did not do enough but as I always point out the Tories are far better at hurting the most vulnerable in society and so they should be they have had far more practise at it.

For whatever arguable reason it is the Tories who are inflicting the cuts not Labour, you may say labour would have had to cut as well, maybe but it would not have been as deep and i suspect it would have been better targeted at those who could bear it better.

During the election "Dave" spouted about the cuts/taxes hitting the rich the hardest, I haven't heard that from him for a while since it has been found to be a lie.

Still "we are all in this together" a phrase the Tories will come to regret as it is shown that it is a fallacy.

PS, the Tories do have a monopoly on "not caring" o

Gosh newwave. Why is it that every cut proposed is always a result of the uncaring evil Tories?

What are your views on say for example the governments attempts to get as many people off incapacity benefits and onto JSA? Are those a result of evil and uncaring Labour?

Ditto with the rules forcing single parents to seek work when the youngest child is of school age? Were uncaring Labour happy to see children suffer in the interests of letting the rich exploit the poor?

what I worry about is that we move from a culture of managers forever pursuing stupid performance indicators which have nothing to do with good practice, to a culture where doing it for the least possible amount of money is the goal
and yes I know it started before this government

services dealing with people, mostly vulnerable people needs more than just a blanket, one size fits all solution

somewhere there must be respect for professional competence and sensible approaches

NG2 answer my question, stop prevaricating.

As I keep on posting I have no great regard for New Labour so stop throwing their stupidity at me, I haven't voted NL since 1997, the first and last lime I ever voted anything but LD although if Clegg and Alexander are not jettisoned I might consider Labour next time.

JUST TRY ANSWERING THE BLOODY QUESTION, WILL TORY POLICIES LEAD TO SUFFERING AND UNNESECARY DEATHS, YES OR NO, IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION FFS.