"No limits to private patients" in NHS hospitals?

[WilfShelf]

Fuck me. What's to stop them just booting out NHS patients? Can someone explain why this won't be a complete decimation of the NHS?

where have you seen this?

Was just on the 10 O'clock news...

Hang on...

Private patients have always been treated in NHS hospitals, well I have a couple of times.

thats true, my hospital has a special carpetted ward for pp's.

They do not mix with the general population.

Yes, but the point is they are limited in numbers. If the cap is lifted, it will - surely? - be disastrous.

It will be WilfShelf. There are still 4 years till the next election, so time to do irreversibly damage the NHS. At least now it is crystal clear it is the same old Tories.

some suggestion of the policy in this press blog from a coupla weeks back

I imagine the full horror will be outlined when the Bill is published.

I think this is more to do with generating income streams than adding more pay beds. So a hospital could decide to super specialise in some areas, and sell its services to any GP (not be limited by LHA boundaries). Still NHS patient, still funded by local holder of NHS purse strings, probably a GP consortium. It's like fundholding writ large, with greater freedom to refer to private sector if better/cheaper there.

BTW: WilfShelf: you mentioned in OP 10% cuts: in which part of NHS are these expected to fall?

Huh? I didn't say 10% cuts, did I?

Hmm. Will need to read proposals. I'm not remotely convinced this will be a good thing. It hasn't really worked in dentistry has it?

Yes, you said you expected complete decimation, hence my interest in whether this is 10% across the board or what.

Aren't private patients British citizens, too?

Not necessarily. Neither are NHS patients, come to that.

What hasn't worked in dentistry? British teeth have never been so healthy! Turn the clock back and get dentures or pain.

More the other way round here. Both of my friends who have had nhs ops this year have been put in the local Nuffield- private room- 24 hour room service.

Onimolap, now you're being a pedant. I meant in the generic not the literal sense.

And whaddaya mean amerryscot? What does British citizenship have to do with it?

Eligibility for NHS treatment (from dh.gov.uk):

Anyone who is deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. ?Ordinarily resident? is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.

Anyone who is not ordinarily resident is subject to the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 1989, as amended. These regulations place a responsibility on NHS hospitals to establish whether a person is ordinarily resident; or exempt from charges under one of a number of exemption categories; or liable for charges.

What about British Nationals? I have paid taxes in the past.

Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The only thing relevant is whether you ordinarily live in the UK.

How do I know if I have to pay ?

The Regulations state that the hospital providing treatment is responsible for establishing who is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment. They will make their decision in accordance with the Regulations. The hospital can ask you to provide evidence to support any claim to free treatment and it is your responsibility to do so if asked. If the hospital decides you are eligible for free NHS treatment you will still have to pay statutory NHS charges such as prescription charges unless you are otherwise exempt. If the hospital decides you are not entitled to free NHS treatment charges will apply and cannot be waived.

What if I do not meet one of these exemptions from charges?

If you are not ordinarily resident or exempt under the Regulations, charges will apply for any hospital treatment you receive and cannot be waived. If this is the case you are strongly advised to take out private healthcare insurance that would cover you for the length of time you are in the UK. There is no facility to purchase healthcare insurance from the NHS therefore any necessary insurance must be organised privately.

What do I have to pay for?

All treatment given by staff at a hospital or by staff employed by a hospital may be subject to a charge with the following exceptions, which are free to all:

Treatment given in an accident and emergency department (excludes emergency treatment given elsewhere in the hospital);
Treatment given in a walk in centre providing similar services to those of an accident and emergency department of a hospital;
Treatment for certain communicable diseases (excluding HIV/AIDS where it is only the first diagnosis and connected counselling sessions that are charge free);
Compulsory psychiatric treatment.
Family planning services
Please note the above information gives general guidance only and should not be treated as a complete and authoritative statement of law. In all cases the Regulations place the responsibility of deciding who is entitled to receive free hospital treatment with the hospital providing treatment.

WilfShelf: pedant? It's only a fancy Latin word for a 10% cut. As the NHS budget has been announced so I doubt it can be a cash cut, I thought you might have an inner track on other planned cuts or impact statements of planned measures and I was hoping you'd spill.

Nope. Am not any kind of insider, sorry.

Labour under Tony Blair started dismantling the NHS, thank God, though the reform stalled under Brown.

The idea that the government should actually run hospitals is absurd, when you think about it. Pay for treatment, yes - but given how awful government is at management, it is ludicrous.

Left-wingers never answer the simple question: if the NHS is so great, why has no other country in the world copied it?

And before the inevitable wall of faux outrage: I believe in universal healthcare provision as a basic social need.

I just don't think the government should run hospitals.

But loads of private hospitals take NHS patients as well. DH and FIL both had knee ops in private hospitals on the NHS. Had a lovely time, didn't pay a penny. What's the difference? They'll be charging the private patients insurance companies through the nose for the privilidge.

wilself. I thought you had to be a British Citizen to receive free NHS care, although I know that those on indefinate leave to stay get it too?

Yes, yes, but what I don't understand is why someone else raised the issue of British citizenship: I didn't raise it and I don't see how, specifically, it is relevant to the point I was making.

The coalition are essentially privatising the NHS, whilst keeping the little blue stickers around to reassure the public.

That is an excellent public policy choice.

and did anyone vote for privatising the nhs? no! would anyone have voted for it? about 1% of the population I would guess (that'd be all the rich ones)