AV referendum

[newwave]

I am in favour of this and would introduce full proportionality if possible, I will however vote against AV so as to cause as much damage to Clegg as possible.

If the vote is "no" then all Cleggs lies and deceit has been for nothing as far as the LD party is concerned.

I shamefully couldn't care less about AV, and I suspect I am not in the minority.

Clegg is certainly pinning all his hopes on the average person being arsed. I too am shamelessly hoping he fails in his mission to big up himself up.

I'm not sure which way I will vote.

On theoretical grounds, it is clearly better. It gives voters more choice.

On pratical grounds, I think it is worse. It makes coalitions more likely, and I think that majorities are generally better than coalitions.

On the other hand, coalitions might be more likely anyway, even under FPTP - in which case, I might like the option of sending a message to the Tories by giving my first preference vote to UKIP.

On balance, I will probably vote no - purely because I don't believe that "FPTP" is "broken" in any fundamental sense - it isn't perfect, but it works, more or less, and it is simple - so why fiddle with it.

so why fiddle with it. because it is undemocratic.

Is there any chance that Labour and LibDem voters will vote for AV and hence get a majority in favour?

If the LibDems dont get AV through I suspect there will be a rupture in the LibDem party and The Coalition will become a 'lame duck' Govt limping from one vote to the next held to ransom by those on the right of the Tory Party and the left of the LibDems.

If the LibDems dont get AV through I suspect there will be a rupture in the LibDem party and The Coalition will become a 'lame duck' Govt limping from one vote to the next held to ransom by those on the right of the Tory Party and the left of the LibDems.

BB Exactly! thats why I will vote against something I support, sometimes the greater good must prevail.

I will vote for it. As UKIP had 900.000 votes and not one MP. I would prefer PR though.

UKIP are fruitloops and little Englanders

FPTP isn't "undemocratic". It is just differently democratic.

AV encourages boring "least worst" candidates, instead of polarising, opinionated ones - which is another negative.

I am not massively in favour of FPTP - but it does work.

It is weird because it only works in practice, not in theory, but then so much of life is like that.

FPTP isn't "undemocratic". It is just differently democratic. :o that was a joke I hope.

It is undemocratic their is no such thing as differently democratic. Is you get 15% of the votes then you should get 15% of the seats, by all means have a bottom line for percentage as you cannot have half a seat.

You are in favour of AV but you are going to vote against anyway.

huddspur I am only in favour of AV from one, narrow, theoretical perspective. I have already explained why I will probably vote against AV though.

newwave Pure proportionality would be a nightmare - just ask Israel. Even largely proportional systems are often unworkable - look at the EU Parliament. And pure proportionality (unlike FPTP and AV) means no more constituency link - something which I think is vital. It helps keeps MPs rooted, honest, and focussed.

You are in favour of AV but you are going to vote against anyway.

Yes for the "greater good" (a difficult concept for a Tory i know). I want to damage Clegg as much as possible, to detach him from his party (a party i support).

I want to help bring down this government as soon as possible, if it isnt brought down we will see the Tories succeed with their ambitions to destroy the welfare state and to privatise the NHS and allow their cronies to asset strip it for their own profit, we will end up back in the 1920's with a version of the poor laws and the workhouse.

I expect the Tories to be scumbags but I did not expect Clegg, Laws and Alexander to cooperate in the wilful damage to the weak and poor proposed by Dave and Gideon.

Is the countrys electoral system not too important to be messing around trying to unseat Clegg from his position though.

hudd, as i said the greater good would be a difficult concept for a Tory.

We have to make hard choices sometimes and as i am not a Tory i dont always put my own needs and wants first.

I have lived with FPTP for 50 years and i have lived with Tory governments, guess which did the most evil.

I'm not a tory but I just feel that the electoral system is very important and it would be sad for people to vote on the grounds of trying to hurt Clegg rather than have a serious look at which electoral system we want as a country.

Stopping the return of cardboard box "cities" to central London is far more important than AV.

Stopping the destruction of the welfare state and the NHS is far more important than AV.

If it was 6 months to the next election I would vote for AV but 4 plus years of Gideon cannot be countenanced.

But by voting for FPTP you will be voting with the tories and so supporting the people that you don't like.

I absolutely promise that I will support Clegg in his pet project. I will even sign a pledge to this effect. And I would no more go back on that undertaking than, erm, a politician would.

If the LD's lose the AV vote then it will drive a wedge between the non ministerial LD MP's and the Orange bookers and Tories.

Answer this please, without AV what does the coalition give to the LD party and non ministerial MP's except the prospect of electoral annihilation.

As you rightly say I dont like the Tories which is putting it mildly but they at least act in the way that their nasty nature dictates. I find Clegg and Alexander to be far more despicable, just a pair of Quislings.

All AV does is increase the chances of a hung parliament and coalition politics will become the norm like most of Europe rather than the usual first past the post system we have.

Personally I think the lib dems ruined their own chances with the student fees debacle.

Had they have stood up to the Tories and said no, then the voters would have thought "hmmm, perhaps this coalition malarky is ok." As it is, they now are more likely thinking "hmmm, lib dems don't have a clue! I ain't voting for anything which makes them more likely to get in!"

Newwave. UKIP are 'fruitloops and Little Englanders' Oh so you know them all do you?
Are you saying the 900.000 who voted for then are mad? How ignorant. UKIP took votes away from the Tories, that is what caused a hung parliament. particularly on the
EU which is totally undemocratic.

People can't be silenced, thankfully. It is only here on MN and other sites that people can come out with absolute crap!

'Tories did the most Evil' What planet do you live on? If anyone has done evil, I suppose it was someone you probably voted for Tony Blair!
If any are 'scumbags' it's the entire Labour party who have ruined this country in more ways than I care to mention!
So stick that in your socialist pipe and smoke it!

No I dont know them all but in the same way as I suspect all BNP memebers are racist I suspect all UKIP members are fruitloops and little Englanders, I will admit on both accounts I could be wrong and I will now apologise to all non racist BNP members and the same in regard to UKIP members who are not fruitloops and little Englanders, happy now.

The Tories destroyed the mining industry and heavy industry leaving whole communities with no work and no future, people driven into drug and drink dependency due to their bleak future, early deaths increased in those communities. If you dont consider that ONE example of Tory policy to be evil then I worry what you do.

Labour party! replaced the crumbling schools and hospitals inherited from the Tories. Reduced child poverty but not fast enough (your mob will increase it again as they ALWAYS do)

Introduced tax credits to help the poor.
Introduced the minimum wage (your lot opposed it).

I am not a socialist, apart from 97 I have always voted LD, wont do again until the Orage bookers are sidelined.

So stick that up your Tory arse and spin on it.

Newwave. 'Tory arse' 'spinning' Do you know of some fetish that I don't?

Comp, God knows, I thought I knew most of them and have tried a few :)

I see we have some common ground.........