A Working class Mumsnet proposed!

[madhattershouse]

Frank Field has proposed some ideas for removing poverty by means other than just financial. One proposal is the setting up of a mumsnet type site for the working classes. Isn't mumsnet meant for all or am I missing something? Are the working classes really needing this or is it a gimmick? article [[http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/dec/03/frank-field-welfare-sacred-cows
here]]

err piprabbit how is not being poorer 'unfortunate'?
If you are not disadvantaged you don't need the help as much..

Can the chavs read then?

What a crock of shite

Dont agree with a seperate "working class" forum, I like the variety on here from far right LFN to a voice of reason (me) :o

Newwave - Don't forget the batshit crazy ones as well.

TCNY

I am sure i mentioned LFN :)

I was thinking of Claig ;)

newwave not sure what that last post all about but the one before made sense - i always feel as though, if I'm in the middle of everyone on MN, i'm probably about in my rightful place.

dreamlady depends how poorer is defined. If services providers are only being rewarded for improving the life chances of children defined as poorer, then presumably there is no financial incentives for them to provide services that enhance the life chances of any other children.
Logically, access to services such as Children's Centres, pre-schools and other foundation services would be means-tested in some way (no point offering a service to children who won't be attracting funding). This will create more divides (along the lines of the proposed working class MN) between children of different 'classes'.

"tingletangle Fri 03-Dec-10 01:18:23
God it would be so dull. I relish watching you lot get worked up over the wrong colour casserole dish."

This is one of the funniest things I have ever read on here!

TCNY, Claig Hmm you may be right but I dont get the undercurrent of spite in his posts

piprabbit, I completely agree children's centres and most of their services should be accessible to all, so kids and parents mix.
The proposals say, and i agree from my experience, that the most struggling parents need to be more proactively told about and encouraged to use the services, because their kids will benefit from them the most, and because they are less likely to find them or be confident enough to access them, without help or encouragement.

oh and SOME services yes will be targeted - eg free nursery provision for disadvantaged 2 yr olds - because there's no solid evidence that it's of significant benefit to children with a 'good enough' home environment to be in nursery.
NB 1 - I'm not saying it's negative for most 2 yolds from a functional family environment to be in nursery (unless the quality of care is not good), just that there is no measurable benefit.

NB 2- how 'disadvantage' is measured is another thorny point - I haven't read this bit yet but think that's one thing the review was meant to deal with - that income alone is not an indicator of whether a child is disadvantaged and we need other 'life chances'indicators. I agree, although the cynic in me says it will just give the tories an excuse to take more money from families... poverty is often i think a symptom, not a cause, but it doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to keep their children warm and fed.

Life for Rent - are you for real?? I kept looking for some clever kind of witty analogy in your post but then had to come to the conclusion that you were serious. We are not born with equality of opportunity no matter how much the Tories want us to believe that. It's rubbish.

Have you ever read "Born to Fail" a sociology book (can't recall the author) but you will find all the evidence in there that we are certainly NOT born with equal opportunities. The odds are stacked against some children from the moment of birth, and will last to a greater or lesser extent through their lifespan.

I think FF is talking nonsense about "working class mumsnet" and demonstrates that he has absolutely no understanding of how some mothers (usually young and immature, with no family support and financial difficulties, often suffering domestic violence (though this cuts across all classes) manage to live a life without hope.

I hate the way some MNs are using the word cunt on this thread - I have no objection to swearing but I hate this word, as it is using a woman's body part as a swear word and I find that offensive.

However I do take issue with many onthis thread who think that 80% of a child's brain is formed by 3 years is rubbish. I don't know the exact percentage, but there is a wealth of evidence and research to prove that the first 3 years of a child's life are the most important in laying down the foundation stones for later life. There is a very good book called "Why Love Matters" by Sue Gerhardt that explains this much better than I can.

Anyway must go, just off to watch Jeremy Kyle!

They're gonna call it MoldiesMarkII.

LFR are you related to LFN you seem to have the same DNA

I doubt any moldie was Working class

dreamlady - I agree with you about being cycnical. I think that, when it comes to implementing this report, the government will look for every opportunity to minimise the amount of money they need to spend. They will tweak the definitions to include the fewest possible children, yet still claim to be implementing the recommendations. With the overall effect that FF's ambitions are not realised and children who are currently receiving support fall through the new gaps.

But it will sound good.

A few of the Moldies were working class, actually.

Some random, off tangent thoughts that have come into my head:

Can someone give me a really good definition of 'working class'? My own feeling is that the term is outdated. When I hear 'working class' I think of people like my grandparents, dad a cole miner, mum looking after six kids, living in a three bedroomed terraced house with lots of community spirit and the neighbours dropping in all the time . I suppose I think of 'working class' as referring to blue collar workers, which puts all people who work in retail as middle class??? Isn't the whole 'class' thing just irrelevant these days? There are too many different ways of life to even begin to fit into categories...

I'd put mumsnetters as a group rather than a class...

Random comments over. Fell free to continue

oops that was meant to be 'feel free' - don't go chopping down any trees on my account

I'm very about the Frank Field report - IMO he's a clapped-out authoritarian and I have no idea why the government is listening to him. I really dislike his parenting classes idea - there's a big danger they would become dominated by one approach, as discipline in schools has become dominated by punishment-reward schemes.

Still, it's worth seeing what he actually wrote about Mumsnet: "I would particularly like to see this 'Nudge group" report on how Mumsnet, an extraordinary but largely middle-class initiative, can be spread to all parents." He doesn't mention the words "working-class" - that's just the Guardian.

I don't agree that Mumsnet is "largely middle-class" (and don't get me started about the "Nudge group" - blergh) but it's clear he's not talking about a "working-class Mumsnet."

As I said, I don't agree with it, but look at the actual report.

Okay, I've been here a year and a half and I keep seeing references to these "moldies" - can I be initiated? What was all that about?

Vesala -

"Still, it's worth seeing what he actually wrote about Mumsnet: "I would particularly like to see this 'Nudge group" report on how Mumsnet, an extraordinary but largely middle-class initiative, can be spread to all parents." He doesn't mention the words "working-class" - that's just the Guardian."

Thank you for putting us straight on that point.

My apologies to Mr Field for accusing him of having a 'stupid idea'. I will now read the actual report .

LifeForRent-

1. "The poor would have to be blamed for their own misfortune".

Who else should be blamed for anyone else's misfortune? We make our own surely?

Have a degree, most of an MA, had a great job- disability can affect anyone, it coulf affect you, it was my children who were unlicky followed by DH's redundancy and subsequent pay cut. Pay cut, note: not time on the dole. We've never spent a day on the dole and never plan to.

2. "Bring back our benefits".

No one is ENTITLED to anything. If you want more money, you should've gone to university and got a better job/not had children unless you could afford them.

Isn;t that why we pay NI? I relaise a few people on here beleive there are payers and claimants and the two never cross but that's shite.

3. "Bad idea for schools to catch only people from certain areas".

Perhaps some of us don't want our children learning how to hot wire a car at the age of 10. Perhaps some of us want to shelter our children from 7 children single parent families. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting the best for our families, and just because some of us earn more than others and have had a fantastic education and upbringing, I don't think this means WE should be punished.

Mine go to a high ranked MC school (the ones not at an SNU) and and I would be amazed if they ever learned criminality as I never managed it on a very rough estate so why would they?

unquietdad had it right. Go to the library and use the free resources (like education) if you want the internet.

They are closing it, we're in a rural area. Luckily DH gets to have internet anyway as his business is internet based and therefore I can study to get a job where we can afford a Nanny who can cope with disability. Takes time, though.