Police endanger the lives of students, schoolchildren and others on 24th Nov. Tuition Fees Demonstration

[dotnet]

At the London demo, police 'kettled' the demonstrators mid-afternoon, just as many people were wanting to leave.
The police showed contempt to the schoolchildren, students, parents and lecturers. They lied to them repeatedly; when someone asked how they could get out of the confinement area, they'd indicate a police cordon opposite, or at the other end of the area,even though none existed - the plods at every exit were barring the way, riot shields in hand, making a 'wall.' No exits were opened from mid-afternoon until about 6.30, and all this time, many- probably most - of those present simply wanted to leave the area, having made their point.
There were thousands of people in a confined space, and nearly all of the kids' behaviour was exemplary despite the utter frustration of being penned up against their will. I even saw some sixth formers (or younger) doing the Hokey Cokey. Bless! - they deserved better treatment than they got.
TWO Portaloos were brought in, and no food or water. A relative of mine came down Whitehall to ask why on earth I had been trapped, and again - was met with lies. 'All the demonstrators can leave whenever they want' she was told. 'Well, if that is so, why is no-one leaving?' she asked. 'It's because they're happy where they are' lied the plod.
Should the police not be charged with False Imprisonment? If I locked someone in my house against their will, that would be the charge I would have to face. Yet the police think it is perfectly fine to coop up thousands of young people and to lie that that is where they want to be, closing their ears to the repeated chant of 'let us leave, let us leave.'
Or perhaps reckless endangerment to life would fit the bill. It was an idiotic, dangerous and thoroughly irresponsible decision by the Head of the Metropolitan Police (I suppose)to concur with the way his force operated yesterday. People have been crushed to death in similar oonfined spaces (remember that terrible football stadium tragedy?)
Those young demonstrators are people's loved children. Shocking that the Metropolitan Police force is filled with such contempt for young life and limb.

[NonnoMum]

A quote from the Times today (excuse me if I paraphrase)...

Mrs Thatcher targetted miners, this government is targetting minors...

[Desiderata]

Protesting students always make me yawn. I mean, they don't know anything, and they spout such shit, and with such utter balls aching conviction!

There's too many of 'em anyway. A bit of judicious economic pruning has been long overdue, economic downturn or not.

[granted]

Love the quote, NonnoMum.

Desiderata - did you go to university? Did you have your fees paid, and if so, are you happy to reimburse the public purse with the cost of your education?

Or were you too dim to go to uni, so are bitter at those brighter than yourself?

[grannieonabike]

There was a photo of so-called 'violent protesters' in the Metro. It showed a 'protester' standing on the front of a police van with a smashed windscreen. All around was a heaving, jostling throng of ... photographers taking photos. Not a demonstrator in sight. In the same paper, another picture showed a 13-year-old girl standing with her arms out at the side of the police van, and the caption was something like she was trying to stop the more unruly elements from attacking it. Which is the true picture? Either one could have been posed for the media by the media. Anything for a dramatic picture ...

Thank you, OP, for your first-hand account. Demos are always like the elephant being described by the six blind men. It depends where you are. Someone I know was standing right in front of Ian Tomlinson at the G20 demo, and looked into his eyes as he breathed his last, poor man. We all saw the video - or at least part of it - so we know what can happen.

The riot police seem to be a different breed from other sections of the police force, and you can see why, as they get criticised whatever they do. Most police officers know what they are there to do: protect the public. Who or what are the riot police there to protect? First and foremost, themselves, I would think. If I was one of them, I would feel very threatened - just by the idea of the violence that they have been told might erupt at any moment. Their adrenalin is pumping, and I find them very scary.

Thank goodness the kids on Wednesday were so sensible and level-headed. I'd like to thank them for going and exercising their democratic right to protest against the education cuts. I hope their experience of kettling hasn't put them off.

[grannieonabike]

Here's a video of what happened to the van. There's even a suggestion that the police left it there in order to entice the kids into breaking the law. Don't know about that ... Possible?

www.guardian.co.uk/education/video/2010/nov/24/london-student-protests

Btw. there's another thread on this in the In the News section.

[Desiderata]

That's right, Granted. I'm as thick as a plank, and viscerally jealous to my core at all those people out there who are brighter than me.

I just didn't realize there we soooooooooo many of them

[dotnet]

You may not be able to prevent disorder in a democracy when something pernicious looks set to be introduced. We are not (quite) in a police state yet. People will react.

I don't myself see why everyone goes on about 'violence' at Millbank. It was vandalism that happened. (And it had the beneficial effect of drawing people's attention to how aggrieved the students rightly are.)

The students didn't hurt anyone on 10 November to any significant extent(and the 18 year old who lost his head in that very dangerous way is rightly penitent.)
The Coalition must have hoped that, because present students won't be affected by any swingeing increase in tuition fees, their fiendish plot would go through unchallenged. All credit to today's students, therefore, for showing solidarity with the younger kids who need our support.

A few broken windows can work wonders at times - hey, Emmeline?

[dotnet]

Kaiserfootmuff - the 'You may not be able to prevent disorder' thing I said above, was me talking back to you. Sorry I can't do any better than that! But I know one thing... I'd be a lot less scared if 'rioting' students were coming towards me than if it was a bunch of riot police with batons spoiling for a fight.
If anyone wants to know, verbatim, what my dd's experience at Millbank was, - I have her letter in front of me (she won't sue me for copyright.)
Grannieonabike - thanks for your nice post.
About the van thing - I think the van WAS parked there to provoke. Otherwise, why was it not driven outside just as soon as the riot police had closed off the exits? There is no way the van wouldn't have been able to get out. The students were just... students. There were some who wouldn't have minded a fight, I suppose, and the atmosphere wasn't entirely pleasant every minute of the time, but to quote dd about Millbank, 'I've had scarier experiences at festivals.'
One thing which was really interesting, and which I don't think was filmed by anyone, as it happened very late on, was that a middle aged man - a lecturer, I suppose - climbed up high on to something and gave a rousing oration. It looked pretty impressive - he was waving his arms and kept getting rousing cheers - but he didn't have a megaphone and I couldn't catch any of what he said. The nice 3rd year student (Kings College London) I was standing with, said to me 'Well, I'm sure I do agree with all of that, but I didn't hear any of it,' and, sadly, the same applied to me.
Maybe someone somewhere did film it and it'll turn up on Youtube.

[moondog]

'reckless endangerment to life'
'false imprisonment'

Get a grip in the name of God you silly woman.

[grannieonabike]

Dotnet, I would love to read your daughter's account (with all names removed, of course!). And is there a school mag or website she could post it on? She's a great example to the others!

[kaiserfootmuff]

dotnet i was answering 60footdolls question, sorry to confuse!

[granted]

So in a nutshell, Desiderata, ys, you were too dim to go to uni, so don't want anyone else to have the opportunity you missed out on as a result.

Bitter, bitter, bitter.

[fluffles]

i was 'kettled' just of oxford street during the may day protests in 1999 and it was totally ridiculous.. i wasn't even protesting, turned up a back street trying to get from college to my flat and when i tried to turn around and get out again i was trapped. for about two hours. it's like the police wanted the protesters to start pushing them around for something to do... because there was bugger else to do standing staring at each other in a back alley off new oxford street

it's a stupid, overused tactic which encourages violent 'clashes' and discourages ordinary, calm, family-friendly democratic protest.

[edam]

quite, fluffies.

Dotnet, I would also like to see your daughter's account. Sounds appalling.

[grannieonabike]

It's the people who have benefitted from going to uni who should fight against these cuts. Sadly some of them are intent on pulling up the ladder behind them.

But we should be prepared to justify ourselves to anyone who wants to know why we feel education is worth fighting for.

Granted - Don't call Desiderata dim. There could be loads of reasons why she didn't go to uni!

[newwave]

Luckily after the killing of Tomlinson the Police seem to be behaving a bit better, during previous kettleing they were lashing out with batons at those closest to the police line and claiming they felt threatened

[grannieonabike]

I've just been listening to the Chief Constable of South Yorkshire on Radio 4 discussing the demonstrations. He doesn't seem to make any distinction between people there for a peaceful protest and criminals!

I think this could be representative of the views of the police: ie that all demonstrators are trouble-makers and criminals, and if they get knocked about a bit at a demo, it's their own fault.

Not only that, but he seemed to blame the organisers of peaceful protests for the violence of people who hijack the demos for their own reasons. So what should the peaceful protesters do? They have nothing to do with the vandals - so how are they expected to control them? Made me and scared to think how hostile some of the police are towards students.

[scurryfunge]

The police are not hostile to students -they were dealing with violent people who were intent on doing damage and causing harm. It is a shame that peaceful protests were hijacked but you cannot have mass disorder in the streets.

Criminals and students do not have visible labels to differentiate.

[grannieonabike]

Scurryfunge, their behaviour is different.

[grannieonabike]

I suppose the peaceful ones could wear flowers in their hair. (Someone else suggested draping the police vans in garlands). Where's Ghandi when you need him?

[scurryfunge]

No it isn't -those intent on damage and mayhem do not make their actions obvious at beginning of any demo. It is not a question of "right, those with criminal intent pick up a red bib, the passives amongst you, pick up a green bib. On my first whistle....go!"

Some criminals infiltrate and others decide on the spur of the moment to commit criminal acts. It is naive to think that all demonstrators play by the rules".

[scurryfunge]

Had rogue inverted commas there, sorry.

[grannieonabike]

But what are the peaceful ones expected to do about it? Stay away from demos? Move very slowly to avoid startling the police?