If you pay tax then you should not receive benefits.

[jollydiane]

If you pay tax then you should not receive benefits.

Please explain what is the point of taxing me, only to give me money back in the form of child tax benefits? Surely it is better for me to pay less tax in the first place and not receive the benefit. The end result is less money needed to pay for bureaucrats. We then can maintain front line services. Discuss.

So, this is interesting - how people get to where they are. Why do you think if the state provided training for nothing you could do fine but without that state largesse and hand out you cannot? And why do I, little miss optimist, think that even if I were tetraplegic suddenly I could sit here and earn money by hook or by crook even simply because I can use words so by writing, marketing, selling or whatever?

Why couldn't ll write a book about living with disability or how her husband has won through on his disabilty and how people deal with difficult mothers in law? Why not just have a go adn write 2 chapters adn send it off. All my writing has started like that even as a teenager and of course most of the time yiou're rejected but we eternal optimists think well next time it will be fine because we know things always get better and better. That's non fiction so you wouldn't need fiction skills, just the good English your writing above seems to portray.

Is that the difference between socialists and others - that the socialists sit saying woe is me if only the state would provide all would be fine and those with my bent think right I'll get up at 5am and see what I can do to generate some work even though it's Saturday morning or whatever (not that I did today but I often have).

The reason I feel that I would be able to do so much better if the state helped me to retrasin is because rather than writing, which you would only pay tax on if and when you were published, I could get a regular PT job, and be paying taxes regularly.

The problem being that the only things the state will pay for me to train in are not exactly compatible with my particular disability. They will pay for me to retrain as a hairdresser - Would you let someone wield a pair of scissors near you if you knew there was a chance they could have a seizure? They will pay for me to retrain as a mechanic - What good is a mechanic that is legally barred from holding a driving license? They will pay for me to retrain in catering - What good is a caterer that cannot use the equipment necessary to the job? As all catering ovens etc are classed as heavy machinery, and someone with uncontrolled epilepsy cannot use heavy machinery.

I will go back to work PT in the future, but I know that realistically I will only be able to get one that pays minimum wage - which will leave me working, but not paying tax. I would rather retrain and gain some useful qualifications, and go back to work, albeit PT - and be earning enough to pay taxes and be contributing to the economy.

It's not that I expect the state to do so, I know they wont. It's just that without that short-term help, I will never again earn anything above minimum wage, and will never again pay taxes due to not earning above the threshold. I find that very frustrating when I feel that I have enough skills to contribute, and earn enough even in a PT job to pay tax, but due to lack of relavent qualifications, it won't happen.

I suppose it's a little bit of frustration that due to my disability, I will not be able to get a job that uses anywhere near all of my abilities. Not that I am averse to hard work for low pay, I've done it before and I'll be doing it again, but I feel like the DWP and the government have basically written me off, and have decided that because I have certain barriers to employment, I should be thankful for anything I can get, rather than taking into account the fact that I am more than capable of getting a semi-decent job that pays much better, and would probably stop our family from needing any government support from TC's.

I feel it's a short-sighted view on the world to limit the options that someone unemployed / with a disability/ both has for free retraining to a select few things, instead of allowing a certain amount of funds for retraining, as not everyone that has been 'unlucky' only has the mental capacity for those select few things that will offer low pay.

I'm interested in people and real lives.

So I suppose if I were in your position I'd think what can I market and what can I sell. buy things at price cheaper than you sell them on at. You will say I don't have money for a pound of potatoes so how can I buy and resell and that Xenia is very lucky she would be able to have the funds to buy and resell which is a fair point. ANy of my children could teach music privately as could I (8 grade 8s etc). So that's (a) naturally music (b) worked very very hard at it to pass the exams (c) lucky enough to live in a area where people are rich enough to pay for their children to have lessons when vast parts of the country parents can yhardly afford to feed them never mind pay for piano lessons or tutoring.

But could you not teach anything - even tutor 7 year olds in times tables? We get people putting leaflets through the door for all kinds of new small businesses from someone coming to your home to deal with your feet to I will do any task at your home including cleaning out animals etc.

Much more fun to organise children's parties for £200 an afternoon than work at a minimum wage job or do people to have to move to areas where others have the funds to spend on chidlren's parties? not sure. I'm going up to Northern Scotland next week and the week after for work things. People do travel for work although of course the poor may not want to do the hitch hiking which student age children might be comfortable doing or 24 hour bus journeys mine have dnoe at cheap prices in Central america

Anyway all food for thought and the law abiding benefits claimants have all those complications that if they earned £20 on ebay sales or £50 marketing a course or something I need people to market they woudl then mess up their benefits claims for months I suppose.

Also you don't need trainig for lots of things if you just have confidence surely. I was paid to life coach someone. She found it really helpful. I'm not a trained life coach.

I've written 30 books. I've never had a lesson on writing a book.

I give loads of courses all the time - I never went on a course or had a day's training in how to speak. Our house has been used for filming. In other words I've just done stuff but not had training in it. It seems to flow from this luck, optimism, self confidence stuff.

None of these things are my main work

To tutor dc you need to pay for a CRB check. And have space in your house to do the tutoring. I don't. Or you have to have transport to get to others houses - not going to work if you have to rely on public transport.

How would someone be a 'life coach? WTF is a 'life coach' anyway?? Can't use house for filming - LL would refuse permission. How would you buy things cheaper and sell them on? No transport to go to places that you can buy cheaper in bulk, I rely on public transort. It's hard enough to get my own shopping home by bus, I have to shop each day as I cannot carry more food than that?

And no-one round here would PAY someone else to arrange their dc's parties - they do it themselves? Do people actually do that? Pay someone else to arrange a party? Haven't met anyone yet who does! These things BTW ('life coaching' aside) are all things that I have thought about and discounted due to the constraints placed on me by the lack of money/lack of transport/ inability to fit in around DP's awkward shift patterns which causes childcare issues.

'Life coaching' has thrown me, that is obviously something that is well outside the sphere of my experiences, I have no idea what it is, or how you would do it. Would you be telling someone how to live? .

Surely to do Ebay sales, you need to have something to sell? I mean, we only have internet access because DD has to submit a lot of her homework online, I am using a clapped out 6 year old laptop that the hinge is broken on (needs to be propped up against a wall to be used), the keyboard is very temperamental, etc. Because it was a 'hand-me-down' from one of my friends when she replaced her laptop. Without which, we wouldn't have one at all. We don't have anyhting to sell, I donate all my dc's outgrown clothes to the local women's refuge, so don't even have those to sell.

Life coaching is basically taking a person through all the constraints upon someone, opportunities they have available to them, and helping to prioritise, strategise and then execute their goals.

Modern people are often overwhelmed by all the choices open to them (or that they think should be open to them) and can't see the wood for the trees. Life coaching helps them get some clarity!

Okay. TY for the explanation. Anyone want to try it with me? . I am not 'overwhelmed' by the choices available to me, in fact I'm distinctly underwhelmed. I maybe am struggling to see the wood for the trees WRT how I can become a contributing taxpayer again given the limitations on me, but it's not as if someone in my situation (or similar) would have the money to get help from a life coach, and surely people like me need that sort of help more than those that can afford to pay for it??

I would assume that it a similar remit to that which advisors in the jobcentre used to have, but for unwaged dependants of employed people - they aren't allowed to SEE the advisors at the jobcentre any more. So where do those people go for help like that?

Surely to make a good 'life coach' you would have to have made a better job of your own life than the people you are advising, or else you are being rather hypocritical in giving them advice on how to do better in their life than you have in yours??

I don't think Life Coaches should be judgemental - it's not about feeling superior about your own life choices, rather being conscious of the choices available and not constantly thinking "what if".

Maybe a life coach would be able to help me to see if there were any viable options for me other than taking a PT retail job for min wage then? Shame I couldn't afford to pay one!

If you take a retail job and work hard, you might get promoted.

Not if you are only able to work PT due to medical issues. No chance of promotion then. FT work makes my seizures worse, and my Neuro has refused to sign me as fit for work if I take a FT job.

Limitations: No transport, so any job has to be accessible by public transport. Cannot work more than 16-22.5hrs a week due to medical issues. No up-to-date relavent qualifications (have no GSCE's, but BTEC's in construction and the built environment up to lvl 3, but cannot go onto a building site EVER again, and C&G quals in CAD which are obsolete as they are over 7 years old, and very old RSA quals in typing). Been out of work for over 3 years. Have only one referee from last 13 yrs as all other employers have gone out of business.

Skills: Am reasonably literate. Am a quick learner. Good at multi-tasking. Punctual. Wants to work. Have taken on supervisory duties in the past (but cannot get references to show this). Have been in sole charge of retail premises in the past. Can cash up a till, and take deliveries. Can do stock ordering.

One more limitation - cannot use anything that is classed as heavy machinery. Which includes catering equipment, and even cardboard compacters.

Sorry....I've been rather busy, not even earning money, j ust admin, voluntary stuff, children etc....

1. life coaching - what is it? I'm doing it here and not charging you.. laughing as I type. I did the bit I did by web cam as the subject was abroad. She found it very helpful. I think I was quite good. So all I needed for that was a web cam which presumably you might have.

1. Transport - we cycle a lot. Are able to cycle? I think a lot of people would feel a lot bnetter if they cycled a few miles a day. mind you you have to be able to afford a second hand bike.

1. I don't think you do need a CRB check for some tutoring. I know someone who tutors music theory by web cam and isn't there someone how does latin coaching by web cam? If you're not in the same room as the child presumably it's hard to interfere with them so you wouldn't need it. So we could start with that. You write and spell well. There wil be relatively rich mumsnetters on here who dont' have much time to help children with their weekly spellings. You could set things up so that you give the child a 30 minutes web cam session learning their spellings, you make it lots of fun too of course and all that stuff, "The Spelling Bee. I'm sure a mumsnetter can come up with a better name.

1. What about also writing articles speculatively? I've done that. I sent one to 50 trade publisications once. About 10 accept it and three paid and the unpaid ones generated work for me. Your first article could be about 600 words on the "dole trap" or that fascinating issue which I think was you the other day that you haev no birth cert.

or marketing. People have thing they need marketing. I do. You paid paid on commission. If you're good at writing or speaking that could work well.

1. Try paypeopleperhour web site too - you can do things on there like freelance writing of web site copy, checking people's writing, proof reading and a whole host of other things.

Yes people pay about £200 for an afternoon's Christmas party. I'd far rather arrange that than work all week on the minimum wage not that that's something I do.

Ebay - well as you say you may not have anything to sell nor be able to make anything but it's another route. Is there something people are very short of - the latest craze, that Blue dress Catherine wore at the engagement announcement, get hold of stocks and sell it on or wahtever is likely to be the latest craze.

Baby sitting on new year's evbe is anotehr one. Get a list of very poor people together who would give up NY eve and send out emails or leaflets about it. Perhaps as you cannot leave teh house much and you have no transport and might have a fit etc you just do the organising as you sound quite an organised person. Get a list of very reliable people together and then advertise to people who need babysitters that night and match up the people and you kee a small commission. They are just a few random ideas.

There are also quite a lot of elderly people in their own homes who want a companion or someone to do errands and advertise in local papers rather than use agncies. You have no transport but someone might be prepared to send a taxi to collect you if otherwise they could not find someone prepared to change their incontinence pads or whatever if they are people wyho find it very very hard to get someone prepared to do a bit of caring for them.

No webcam. Can't ride a cycle, too dangerous - seizure whilst riding a cycle on the road...run over much? Writing short articles sounds a feasible possibility, but really I'm looking for something I can do as a 'proper' job, to get me out of the house, earn a regular amount of money (needs to be regular due to restrictions on Tax Credits/HB etc, irregular amounts of money still have to be declared, and can cause serious problems with claims). How do you 'get hold of stocks' of dresses and such without the cash there in the first place?

The babysitting sounds good, but tbh, most of the people I know wouldn't PAY for a babysitter - we don't charge each other for looking after each other's dc. And I'm talking about all the people in my social circle, which ranges from those claiming IS/JSA to those earning upwards of £50K pa.

Payeopleerhour sounds like a good one, I may check that out, but if it is only like one hour here, then 2 hrs the next week etc - it's not going to be enough, a variable income really messes with TC's. If I could do a solid 16+ hrs every week on there, that'd be ok though.

And anyway, Xenia - I must take issue with one thing - just because someone is 'very poor', does it mean that they would be willing to give up their NYE? I personally am the ONLY person I know that isn't really bothered much by NYE. Most people I know have massive NYE parties, and cannot understand why I like to spend NYE at home with my DP and dc.

Or at work! Last time I was employed, offered to work NYE as I was paid triple time, as no-one else wanted to work it! I got almost £21 an hour for that night! This year, DP is working NYE mind you. Double time for him, but still all good.

I know lots of people who dont' bother with new year's eve. I certainly don't. I will be babysitting my own children that night.

So I suspect even on benefits with a bit of thought you might be able to afford a second hand web cam - they are pretty cheap or try the tutoring idea by MSN.

So you want 16 x minimum wage a week which is about £96. so if you could persuade 1 - 2 subscribers a week to take up one of my newsletters that would be the commission and it could just be done at home - telephone, email and presumabnly for lots of other people with things to sell. B ut as you say you need the guaranteed income of a regular job not based on your own success only.

Do look at the paypeople per hour place because a lot of very hard workers who are badly educated and spell badly who have reasonably good businesses are let down by poor copy and spelling or inability to write marketing materials and they advertise on there. I was looking at an ad on there a few seconds ago.

Loudlass

A variable income may mess with HB - but it shouldn't have to mess with tax credits.

I'm self employed and simply give them an estimate at the start of the year which they base the years tax credits on; then if it looks like I'm going to make much more or much less I update the estimate. Then after I do my tax return I tell them the final amount and they send me a final statement kind of thing saying you qualified for X amount. We paid you X/Y amount. We still owe you 0 or Z amount.

I always do a generous estimate as I'd rather have been underpaid slightly than over paid.

I know that housing benefit is more complicated (I don't get it) and that alone may make irregular income unsuitable for you. But just wanted to make sure you know there are ways to handle irregular income with tax credits.

Also - if you work for your self - you don't only count the time you are being paid for.

You count the time you spend on admin, advertising, buying things for your business, going to the posto office to post things if your sell something etc etc.

So if you put 16 hours a week in, then it shouldn't matter if you don't get paid for all of them, especially to begin with.

(again though, I know the housing benefit rules are different to tax credits)

Nope, need to be paid for all hours 'worked' as in respect of TC's and HB, it is assumed that you will be getting minimum wage for every hour worked.

No, it isn't for tax credits.

Tax credits is based on hours worked and income. You don't have to earn minimum wage for your hours worked if you are self employed.

This may change; It's a change which is proposed in the new white paper; but not currently something that is in place. So probably best to make decisions now based on what's currently happening, rather than on legislation that has yet to be put before parliament. Bear it in mind, of course, but don't let it stop you doing something if it's something you want to try.