Very strong +0.8% growth in Q3

[longfingernails]

Labour doommongering shown to be baseless, yet again.

Lady I'm not a Tory but the facts are that this is the largest deficit we've ever had in peacetime and that we cannot ignore it otherwise the bond and currency markets will crucify us.

I agree with you about consumer confidence being too low but hopefully the uncertainty regarding where the cuts would be made has gone then it may pick up a little.

And of course the cuts aren;t political....

Well if you aren't cutting back your spending on Christmas we'll all be fine won't we... (I will as I am not sure I'll have a job after January..)

longfingernails I don't think we can cut the NHS due to the demographics of the population. We have an ageing population that will put pressure on the NHS to improve efficiency within it. Health is also unique in that innovation tends to push costs up rather than bring them down.

Blackduck Of course the cuts are political.

Some political priorities are worth it. Others aren't.

The pensioner bribes, though bad policy (largely introduced, of course, by Gordon Brown), are worth it if it keeps Labour out of power.

Cutting the NHS would have been sensible in my opinion. Yes, costs increase - but productivity can increase faster. However, it just wasn't politically feasible for Cameron.

Labour wouldn't have cut quangos, or limited non-disability benefits, or got rid of the union modernisation fund, or the enormous sums paid to the Guardian for public advertising. Labour wouldn't have frozen the licence fee for 6 years. They would have had deeper defence cuts, more recovery-choking tax rises, more debt interest. Those are all political choices.

Just a small point. We are at war. This is not peacetime. There is/was unexpected cost there too.

The largest deficits have been experienced in all the economies in the Western world, yes, however we are not Greece. Or Ireland. The positioning of the UK being like Greece and Ireland by our own government was quite sad, but ultimately very dangerous and short sighted. It has destroyed consumer confidence. That was all a little weird for me.

I would never say that cuts are not necessary to tackle the deficit. I would however not disproportionately aim them at the poor and women/kids. And I also would not have ring fenced the NHS ( lets not forget that the Tories are actually going to SPEND on the NHS by bringing in their ridiculous ideological and based on no evidence of increased productivity reorganisation )

The credit rating agencys were threatening to downgrade our rating from AAA and we were paying similar interest rates on our bonds so we weren't that far from being in serious trouble. Admittedly our economy is more robust than some of the Southern European economy but the markets did need reassuring.

You have a real problem with unions LFN - why is that?

Not sure that is true huddspur - we weren't ever paying similar rates for our gilts as Greece, Ireland etc - but they were far higher than historical gilt yields.

However, we were put on negative watch by many of the credit rating agencies. The spread between our gilt yields and German Bund yields soared - making Britain far less competitive than Germany.

Since the coalition, and especially after the Comprehensive Spending Review, our gilt yields have reached record lows. A brilliant monetary shot in the arm for millions of companies and homeowners! Britain was seen as in the danger zone - it is now seen as a "flight to safety" country by nervous investors, because of the deficit reduction.

I hope the Debt Management Office act prudently and issue as much debt as they can in the next few weeks, locking in those low rates.

Yes LFN your political stance is very clear - I am not saying cuts aren't necessary, but I do wonder at the underlying principles behind them (don't be a woman, a child, poor, disabled...)

LadyBlaBla Bob Crowe and the RMT, mainly. Of course, I remember Scargill too.

I have total contempt for collective bargaining. People should be paid according to their abilities. Better nurses should get more salary than bad nurses. Same with teachers. If they don't like their salaries, then instead of striking, they should quit.

On the credit rating thing - this is the same S & P who gave a triple AAA grading to total junk and ramped up institutions just before the crash back in 2008?

Look at what they did to Ireland. They basically went bust and they were downgraded to AA

Its all BS

The markets don't think that its BS ladyblablah and that is who we owe money to and the people who have the power to make our lives very uncomfortable.

Lady B - It is ironic that the Coalition are trying to reduce our reliance on the very 'markets' of which you are so dismissive. Labour (even Darling) planned to increase our dependence on them over the medium term.

The growth figures are the best in this quarter for 10 years, I think this is really positive news.

@huddspur. I think you're right about the consumer confidence returning now that we know the scope of the cuts. The uncertainty was driving confidence down as everyone assumed the worst and hunkered down for the impending storm. 2008/9 we had whatever the opposite of 'panic buying' is (panic thrift?) amongst many who were not remotely affected by redundancy, share-price falls or a drop in their income. I think the same is true at the moment.

Agree with the above. Often, confidence isn't hit by the bad news ahead, but uncertainty about it.

Now that we have fairly clear plans, people know what is coming. I hope that brings back confidence.

I have just watched Angela Eagle on The Daily Politics on iPlayer though. She looked absolutely desperate for bad news about the economy! She still can't answer the simple question: "what would you do". Red Ed needs to get an economic strategy, and fast, before he becomes even more irrelevant.

Labour don't need to rush to offer policies. They are in opposition and will be for the foreseeable future. It is a shit argument that they need a detailed proposition of what they would do.

If you think things still are uncertain you are living in a dreamworld. The cuts have not been specific. Councils for example have to decide where they will implement the required cuts - and who will be affected - the private sector will be included in this as contracts are dropped or reduced. There is no certainty about anyone involved in any way with the public sector.

The whole talking down of the economy was an error imo. Confidence is an elusive thing and it was not given enough credence if growth is the overall plan.

If you think things still are not uncertain.....

longfingernails, you are surely not suggesting that the q3 growth was magicked up by the Coalition during their first 4 months? If you think the 0.8% is so significant you should be praising Gordon Brown.

It's a lovely idea that "cuts stimulate growth". Suggests the delightful image of a well pruned garden. There is little logic to it unfortunately. The cuts will inevitably have a very damaging effect in many areas of the private sector.

Lady Blah - I don't think it is a 'shit' argument, that Labour need a cohesive policy of their own.

For one thing, the party look foolish simply opposing everything when people all around the country are begging them to set out an alternative. We don't want the tory cuts and wantt o get behind a properly well thought out strategy.

What we don't want is a round of studenty demos.

For another, the coalition is fairly fragile. It is not at all certain that it will last a full term. It is possible that the Lib Dems stop supporting the government at some point.
Labour, in my view, need to be the alternative, not the opposition.

Let's not forget that all of the parties were vague about cut policies at the GE. So to say Labour need a cohesive and comprehensive policy at the moment is, for that reason, shit.

If the coalition breaks up when growth declines, recession hits, unemployment spirals and interest rates head up, then that is when Labour need to have a less vague policy and become a real alternative. If I were Ed, I would not rush in either to show my hand.

I would have more time for Labours criticisms of the coalition and its policys if they actually came up with alternative ideas in how to deal the deficit and the countrys other problems. Its very easy to criticise

Indeed.
The cuts are massively unpopular, but folk are not so stupid as to just accept that nothing has to happen.

What they are constantly asking is, okay, what's the alternative.

At the moment, Ed looks clueless. If he had viable alternatives, the country would take him seriously. The rank and file of the Lib Dems would also be made to sit up and listen.

The criticism that they do not offer ideas as to how to deal with the deficit and other problems is unfounded. I agree with the vagueness of the ideas, but they offer ideas of an alternative. This is however, a cross party problem. Have you ever looked at the Coalition agreement - it says things like "improve commitment to industry".

vagueness is the name of the game apparently

Really? If I were Ed, I would wait and see what happens with the gambles they have taken - if they fail, it is at that point people will be screaming for an alternative, and that is when he should go for it. IMHO obviously.