London firefighters to strike on Bonfire Night

[longfingernails]

What are they thinking?

Theory X and Theory Y styles of leadership

Unfortunately, the way in which the Tories govern encourages Theory X.

And the result is lowered morale and lowered productivity, and more unrest.

This whole thing about 'being relaxed' about the strike is a complicated message which essentially is a further insult to the firefighters; implying (wrongly) that they are not really required anyway. It simply further enhances the conflict. It is a very passive aggressive way of behaving - but obviously the right wing press see the firefighters as being the 'aggressive' ones.

Pan am rarely around myself anymore so surprised to see a friendly name
your biscuits is my baking repitoire, still a fav!

OP have you finished reading the Daily Nail yet?

This is dangerous and stupid and they should abandon it. How can the firefighters be so irresponsible this could very easily cost lives and they know it.

They are being provoked baildon.

They are being made to feel worthless

They are being made to feel unappreciated

They are being disempowered

They are having their autonomy reduced

It is a natural human reaction

Don't know what else the govt expect? Treat people like shit and they will act like shit right back at you.

Everyone knows you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar (except those who confer with Theory X style of leadership)

It is actually a simple case of bad management of change

I really hope the fire service have a change of heart about this, I don't know anything about the dispute being a northerner but to premeditate a strike on what they know will be busy night seems almost sadistic to me.

The right to withdraw ones labour is pretty fundamental I think, regardless of how it might inconvenience or even endanger others

In fact this might help to clarify just how essential and thus valuable such labour is

If firefighters do not have the rights over their own labour, who does? What other jobs would this principle apply to then?

I agree with the right to withdraw labour Chibi its just I think that they shouldn't do it on the night where they know that they will get the most calls and that people will more likely be in danger.

It makes me wonder why the firefighters are 'blamed' for striking

They are acting in response to being treated like crap. I don't get what's not to get.

It is a reflection on the management, pure and simple. They have unsuccessfully been able to implement change and have introduced policy with no regard for their workforce. 79% are in favour of the strikes. THey have managed to piss off a lot of the workforce. That is pure and simple shit management.

firefighters have been treated like shite for ages now. don't blame them for striking. to be honest if people are really worried they should boycott fireworks as well.

have seen two firestations shut here. it's really not on.

LadyBlaBlah Tue 26-Oct-10 19:04:01
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"THey have managed to piss off a lot of the workforce. That is pure and simple shit management."

a bit like the Government/MOD really with the Armed Forces

when the last strike was on (sat I think) I actually saw our local fire crew in their fire engine all wearing uniform sitting in the local supermarket car park.

I think if there had been a serious fire (as there has been recently in our area in tower blocks etc) they would have gone.

Anyway the current plan is a threat - if the LFA would withdraw the sacking notices they will not strike.

Fire service is an extremely disciplined and professional service imho so must take alot for them to strike.

They also risk losing their life when they attend a fire and attend rtas - pretty gruesome eh? and brave

Agree that armed services also treated like shit. And Im quite anti war etc.

Lot of posturing and lip service paid by politicians to the war heroes but not much follow through when they leave etc.

This applies to both parties btw

Labour London Assembly members on the LFEPA (London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority) voted for the contract changes, but seem to be awfully quiet about the strike.

I think going on strike on Bonfire Night has been a great idea. Did anyone notice the strike last week? Now because its on Bonfire night everyone is talking about it. Its a shame that the media hasn't properly covered what they're striking for though.

I was chatting to a friend today (her DH is a fireman) as well as sacking them all and reemploying them on new contracts, apparently they also want to change where they work. So you find out the day before which station your shift will be at, so not with the same team at all!

Also I know what I'm like at the end of a normal 8 hour days sitting on my arse, I don;t think a 12 hours daymanual work (plus commuting time to wherever they may get sent) can be good for safety.

Anyway, I'm not usually one for supporting strikes but I wil be this one. Hopefully it won't come to it.

If anyone had the balls to fire Coleman and replace him with a capable human being then this dispute would disappear.

Strike action can always be attributed to shit management and Theory X styles. This guy hasn't a clue.

LadyBlaBlah Why did Labour members of LFEPA vote unanimously for the changes?

This isn't Brian Coleman alone. It suits the FBU to make it all about Brian Coleman, because he is a prat.

Unfortunately for them, the FBU are also striking against the voting decisions of all those Labour AMs.

Who knows LFN - it was a while back is the only contribution that I have to that question.

The fact is, since them, the management have done this: they've written to every firefighter telling them that if they don't agree to rip up their contracts, they'll be sacked. I don't know how you'd describe that approach, but I'd call it irresponsible. And what do they expect as a response ?

Nothing is ever about one thing ( i.e. Coleman) but he is not making things any easier. Because in fact, it is ok to negotiate with those 'inferior to you' in terms of rank; you know, perhaps to try and understand their concerns and try and reassure them or indeed resolve the issues in order that productivity is maintained.

Negotiating obviously is not his strong point. And before you say that negotiation means 'giving in' - really really it doesn't.

Negotiation is usually best, but only for a while.

Reagan's solution for the Air Traffic Controllers worked pretty well.

There can be negotiations if the trade union is constructive, but not if they are militant.

There is no point negotiating with the RMT. Bob Crowe, like Scargill before him, just will not reason. The RMT needs to be utterly and totally destroyed.

I thoroughly endorse the secret shadow workforce for the Tube strategy advocated by Chris Blackhurst:

www.thisislondon.co.uk/markets/article-23891014-boris-johnson-should-follow-rupert-murdoch-and-clip-bob-crows-wings.do

As for the FBU leadership. I don't know too much about where they stand on the spectrum of insane left-wingery, but this stunt shows they are pretty bolshie. There are even rumours that some striking firefighters have been sabotaging equipment so that the emergency replacement crews can't use it.

"Perhaps, though, this is also the moment for Boris Johnson and his underground managers to play hardball" from the Evening Standard 'article'

"There is no point negotiating with the RMT. Bob Crowe, like Scargill before him, just will not reason."

What do you think you are dealing with? Negotiators who say there is no point in negotiating are not negotiators. It really misses the point, and proves the point about the way in which leaders view their subordinates ( Theory X)

"There can be negotiations if the trade union is constructive, but not if they are militant."

lfn - do you not see implication of this? i.e. if you will do as whatever we tell you, you can 'consult/negotiate with us. If you get all assertive and demand things we don't want ot give you, then you are 'militant' and we won't talk to you'.

you suggested last night that the notion of naivety is present on this thread??

It appears that the RMT has managed to get a 7% pay rise and a £2000 christmas bonus. I can see why firefighters think this strike is a way to get the results that they want.

www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=139932&int1stParentNodeID=89732

Exactly. That rise comes straight out of farepayers' and taxpayers' pockets. It isn't remotely justifiable. That example alone provides ample evidence of why the RMT needs to be smashed.

I beginning to form the impression that there is a series of strikes being planned in one industry after an other throughout the winter.

Each reason behind a strike may be legitimate but the whole picture is of a Labour fightback being coordinated via the Union movement.

An interesting post on the Guido Fawkes* blog about the appearance of Bob Crowe at the Lonodn Fire Brigade protest and an RMT banner being waved. What has it got to do with the RMT?

*Guido Fawkes is a long time well known right of centre blogger and nothing to do with the fact that it is coming up 5th of November.

I am not sure if you realise the reality of day to day firebrigade work?

Ona 13 hour night shift the crews get dinner. A full cooked hot meal, cooked in a lovely kitchen by the crews. If this get disturbed by a call out then they get the full break time again and pay.
They have beds to sleep in as you cant expect them to work 13 hours without any sleep as this would be unsafe
They dont have to leave the station at night unless they get an actual call out.
Also you wont find many fire crew who dont spend their 4 days off doing a second job. Not because they have too finacially but because they have so much time off they get bored.
I have every respect for the work carried out by the firebrigade.
However. They are spoilt because of the massive public goodwill they have. The union managemnet know that all they have to do is go on stike and everyone start bleating about how brave they are and how wonderful it is that they go into burning buildings!
Yes thats true but they are the ONLY public service who are allowed to stike. Look at the working patterns of the Ambulance and police. They are treated like shite and mostly dont get paid as much as the fireservice!!!

I speak as someone who's brother is in the brigade and several of my friends are and I used to work for ambulance and have firsthand knowledge of how the fireservice works.

I am not sure if you realise the reality of day to day firebrigade work?

Ona 13 hour night shift the crews get dinner. A full cooked hot meal, cooked in a lovely kitchen by the crews. If this get disturbed by a call out then they get the full break time again and pay.
They have beds to sleep in as you cant expect them to work 13 hours without any sleep as this would be unsafe
They dont have to leave the station at night unless they get an actual call out.
Also you wont find many fire crew who dont spend their 4 days off doing a second job. Not because they have too financially but because they have so much time off they get bored.
I have every respect for the work carried out by the firebrigade.
However. They are spoilt because of the massive public goodwill they have. The union managment know that all they have to do is go on stike and everyone start bleating about how brave they are and how wonderful it is that they go into burning buildings!
Yes thats true but they are the ONLY public service who are allowed to stike. Look at the working patterns of the Ambulance and police. They are treated like shite and mostly dont get paid as much as the fireservice!!!

I speak as someone who's brother is in the brigade and several of my friends are and I used to work for ambulance and have firsthand knowledge of how the fireservice works.