United Left Wing

[LoopyLoupGarou]

Now that we have been truly and utterly betrayed by the Lib Dems, do you think that the left will unite to vote for Labour in the future, meaning that the liberal vote is no longer split?

I voted LD (and always have done) but am now not sure between Labour and Green. I agree wit the Green Party on most things, but think Labour probably needs all the support it can get.

Opinions please.

Interesting that you don't feel at all betrayed by Labour...I think you should therefore vote Green; that way you can snipe from the sidelines without making any difficult decisions and thus always feel warm and fluffy inside.

I think it's inaccurate to assume that everyone who voted LD and who would describe themselves as left wing feels 'truly and utterly betrayed'. There is a long way to go before there is another election and if a week is a long time in politics - four and a half years is an eternity. If the current strategy results in the economy recovering quicker than normal... if some of the measures can be softened ... if the Labour party makes a dog's breakfast of opposition. Who knows?

Friendly bunch today, aren't we? [hgrin]

I think you should vote Green - that way you can retain your sense of moral superiority

You asked for opinions.... Not everyone here is pleased with what the Labour Party did or would even describe them as 'the left' in recent years, come to that. They had a lot of support at both of the previous elections but let many of their natural voters down very badly with their combination of welfare state largesse, financial deregulation and fondness of all things military.

Division between the old Blairite and left wings of the Labour party and keeping the unions to heel is what's going to preoccupy Ed Milliband and co for a while. The left is far from united. Disenchanted LDs would be much better served putting pressure on their own MPs who are in a position to do something... rather than the opposition which can't quite decide which way is up just yet.

I totally agree that Labour acted in a far from left wing manner when they were in office, which is why I'm struggling to decide where my loyalties lie.

I'm struggling to see where I've shown any sense of "moral superiority" in my post, I was simply asking for opinions on whether recent events will unite the left, not what you think of me.

And thank you Chil, that is exactly the kind of debate I was after. I wonder if disenchanted LDs feel that their MP has any sway at all, after seeing what has happened with the spending review.

I wonder, if there were an opinion poll now, what the public would vote. I have absolutely no idea what public feeling really is right now, I think people are scared and upset with all three main parties.

I think sometimes that we have an egocentric view of what democracy is, and look for a party which reflects our own beliefs; instead, we should be looking at voting for a party which has a chance of getting in to power and is most closely aligned with our own belief system.

Agreeing with every policy a particular party has is incredibly rare and verging on fanaticism IMO.

That sounded wrong, I hope you know what I mean.

This make sound "morally superior" ( ) or probably naive, but I really thought that we might get a good chance of having proportional representation, then we could vote for what we believe in rather than who might win. I really doubt that will happen for a long time now.

I want the Labour party to move to the left .I don't want Ed Milliband to just be another centre right politician as you can't tell much between them and the Tory party. If all disillusioned Labour voters move to the Greens the Conservative party will get back in power. I hate the fact that Labour took us to war but i have to forgive them and pray for a fresh start with Ed Milliband as the Labour party is the only one closest to my socialist values.

If there were an opinion poll just now I think you'd find there was a surprising amount of support for the measures being taken. Certainly, some people are scared, others are upset but I think there is a reasonable majority that are very happy with the welfare cuts, not directly affected by cuts in public sector jobs and/or retired (the group that has been most protected so far)

BTW... under proportional representation the situation LD voters are finding themselves in now will be magnified across a lot of other minor parties as groups of alliances group and regroup in an attempt to govern. 'Selling out' & 'betrayal' are the default settings under a true PR system because the whole thing depends on being able to compromise.

My own beliefs are extremely left wing- however, I am firmly against a move to the left. I do not want them to reflect my views, as that would make them unelectable.

I would rather have Labour in power than the Conservatives- this does not mean I support all, or even most, of their policies.

Why does a move to the left =unelectable. Is it because of the bias of the right wing media who are owned by the super rich who want to protect their assets ? Are you referring to the fact that people like Michael Foot and Neil Kinnoch who did not win over the electorate. Time for a change we cannot carry on with things the way they are. We want change.

I do too, kerstina. But look at the views people are willing to share since the tories came to power... were they just afraid to speak their mind before, or have they been manipulated by the right wing press?

The press are undoubtedly responsible for keeping the left unelectable, but that is the status quo- any change in the press would take at least two generations to embed.

I want a Labour government sooner rather than later.

I'm sorry but labour are unelectable with Alan Johnson as shadow chancellor. I really like him but he was completely out of his depth yesterday. He failed to challenge the coalition properly and was unable to think on his feet.

Ed Miliband looked far from confident sitting next to him.

In their anxiety to prove they are giving the poor a fair deal the lib dems seem to forget that those who vote for them are probably middle earners or students and these groups are losing out big time from the policies so far which have failed to target the rich (tory voters) at all. The lib dems will lose their core vote and not attract any votes from the less well off as the less well off will assume they are always better off under labour or not vote at all.

The tories meanwhile have kept the rich bankers and pensioners happy so will hope the lib dem vote will fall enough for them to gain a majority.

"Why does a move to the left =unelectable"

Because the minute people like Bob Crow get a grip on the nation we are down the toilet faster than you can say 'deficit reduction plan'. It's not the right-wing press that makes me say that so much as a lesson from history and looking across the channel to what's happening in France. A Labour government led by union-elected Milliband would be pushed around by the unions until it caved in to pressure, whether it was in the national interest or not. Early/mid seventies pre-Thatcher, that was the story week in week out - exactly like France is today. Government paralysed between action and appeasement. Blair & Brown kept the unions largely out of the picture since but people (like they remember Thatcher) also remember how bloody awful it was when the hard left ran the show.

If the last labour governement was left, I'm a marxist the last labour governement was liberal in all but name.

Liberal ideology is deeply flawed and confused. Liberals believe in a free market economy without any control. They also believe in the welfare state and in equality of opportunity, where the most talented and able rise to the top and the poor and vulnerable are provided for. The free market economy is the cause of poverty. The conservatives have no fear about creating more unemployment in their spending cuts because high levels of unemployment actually create a greater surplas value to big businesses, because it pushes wages down and profits up. All the time political parties raise party funds from big businesses, they will never represent the electorate.

So if Red Ed has the support of the unions great, he has my support too.