Restricting student numbers would cost less money!

[Changebagsandgladrags]

Tell me this? Why don't they just restrict the number of students going to university each year? This would cost less money and fees could be kept down.

We could have a quota of places for qualifications that are needed in the country. We could close down loads of institutions offering underwater basket weaving and toenail studies.

I don't know why 50% have to go to university to get a degree that's going to cost them a fortune and not help them get a job.

Of course if people wanted to study subjects purely for interest then they could, but this would come at a price.

I couldn't agree more. It is a waste of everyone's time and money sending 50% of people to university. How many jobs really need a degree? Perhaps about 10%? There is a huge gulf of difference in the worth to society of someone studying medicine as oppose to history of art.

I think university fees increasing is inevitable. However I really do not understand why the last government decided so many people should go to uni. It doesn't guarantee you a job, or even a return on your investment. When you hear about graduates fighting for a £17k IT help desk job it's not a massive leap to think they would have been better off (and more useful) training as a plumber.
Even with top up fees, the country still pays a lot for education. Why are we investing in getting people crap qualifications and into debt to boot?

Well there are things that we need as a country: engineers, doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, scientists, dentists etc etc.

So we should as a country pay something towards educating these people as we do get the benefit.

Yesterday there was someone on the radio who said he had a degree in Business. WTF?? If you need to learn about business surely you are better off working and doing proper business qualification while you work such as accountancy.

"Yesterday there was someone on the radio who said he had a degree in Business. WTF?? If you need to learn about business surely you are better off working and doing proper business qualification while you work such as accountancy."

Actually for the many graduates from Business and Management degrees who go on to train as accountants - a knowledge of marketing, HR, business law etc. is very beneficial.

Change - or our you suggesting that the skills required to work in business are somehow inferior to those of nurses, teachers, engineers etc?

Oops - are

DH didn't go down the university route, not for him, but he did do his CIMA whilst working and he's earning more than most of his university educated peers.

I think that funding should be in place for professions we do need such as doctors, nurses, etc. Also we need funding for trades too, like plumbers, electricians, etc.

I am very dubious about half of everyone going to university as well, when all many are ending up with is a huge debt and 3 or 4 years lost on their start on the work ladder.

The reason people were encouraged to go in the first place was to improve the unemployment figures I think? And then they started saying that degrees were necessary for a lot of jobs that you just used to qualify for while you worked?

However the problem with restricting places is we will just end up with the private school / in the know middle class types going to uni. But then we already have that to some extent, in that it is these people who are doing the "right" subjects at the "right" universities, and getting into the good jobs.

Sorry this is a bit of a stream of consciousness, i don't really know what I think.

What I do think is that universities and schools etc should be honest with students about what subjects will impress an employer / lead to a good career.

I have heard an argument as well that all employers want degrees these days. But this is a reaction to everyone going to university, not a cause.

I also think that we need to remember that getting a good (read well paid) job is not the only reason for further studying. Interest, enjoyment, a passion, desire to enquire (and go into low paid but important work like research) are all important as well.

I wish I hadn't done my degree and unless my children can get into a top Uni, I don't think I would encourage them to bother. In my experience, as so many people have degrees nowadays, employers look to the Uni at which you studied and if it isn't one of the 'proper' universities, you don't stand much of a chance. A first from an old poly is nothing like as desirable as a 2:2 from somewhere like Durham.

Hammy02 - that is exactly what happens.

In the 'old' days about 25% of people went to University and got a grant. Now we send 50% and people have to brorow to fund the fees. Halve the number and double the grant I say.

I agree, tbh.

I also think we really need to look carefully at all the jobs that are now 'degree level professions' which weren't in ye olden days.

Nursing is, IMO, not something one needs to go to uni for 3 years to study. It's a practical subject where you're better off actually spending time on wards than in lectures (and there are several nurses who feel this way). Sure, a certain number of lectures are necessary but my student nurse contemporaries said they learnt far more on placement and in their first year than any lecture could have ever taught them and they wished their practical training could have been double. But then if I had my way I'd also bring back tiered nursing registration and hospital centred training.

Study for the sake of study is definitely to be encouraged but not when it involves things like 'golf course management', 'football studies' or 'beauty and holistic health therapies management'.

jackstarbright I don't think the skills needed for business are inferior to other skills, but I don't think that university is the best place to learn those skills, I think its in business.

I studied accountancy, but I studied it as a trainee in work. So I did theory and applied it at the same time. Those with accounting degrees did no better than I did (although I had a degree in another subject - maths).

I can hear you all now, but you did maths, that's not particularly useful. No it isn't I wish I'd done engineering instead, maybe £££ would have helped with the decision!

"Study for the sake of study is definitely to be encouraged but not when it involves things like 'golf course management', 'football studies' or 'beauty and holistic health therapies management"

You know of course that leisure, beauty and football are big revenue earners in this country.

Blame Thatcher and/or Blair if it helps - but the UK is pretty much a 'service based' economy'. And that's where the jobs are.

hammy02 - does it follow then that a first in toenail studies from Durham is still better than a first in Law from a deadend poly?

Only ask as ds1 is going through potential courses and has been looking at a social science degree at York versus a LLB at a former poly. I had figured social science degrees wouldn't carry as much weight as LLB, but from what you say perhaps he could do toenail studies and become a manicurist.

It might be where to jobs are but do people in that industry need a degree to do those jobs?

No.

I'd rather have someone who left school at 16, got a good vocational qualification and 3 years of professional experience learning on the job than someone who went and studied a degree in those subjects. That's what I meant by we need to re-evaluate where we need degrees.

I know those degrees aren't all about practical skills but that's where HNCs and HNDs in business or management have their place. You do a 1 year course in the generic skills you needed, which, combined with a VRQ and good experience, gives you pretty much what you got from a degree but cost less.

A degree is becoming a status symbol, not a sign of academic rigour and intellectual ability. It's very difficult to pick out the wheeat from the chaff.....

I don't think Durham would do any of those pointless degrees that other institutions get away with. I just think that for young people today, its not just a waste of 3 years of their life if they do a degree at a Poly, they also come out with a lifetime's worth of debt.

The current numbers of students going to university is ridiculous and we are encouraging thousands of people to get themselves into debt doing a degree that will not help them get a job, I thinbk that is quite a wicked thing to do myself.
An example of this is we produce more photography graduates then there are proffesional photographers in the EU.

Totally agree with OP, many degree courses are usless, and do not give the graduate a job at the end of it. This government must encourage/help/mentor those who wish to go into the fields of engineering and science etc. For instance, last year India alone produced some 250.000 engineers, and in this country we are battling to find them. This government now must use its power to sort out the severe shortage in engineering,maths,and the sciences. Many engineers and scientists have gone abroad where they are more highly thought of and government must address these issues.