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Original poster

WTF - my daughter is benig 'morally instructed' as part of RE

37 replies

JJ6 · 02/07/2010 21:44

The whole family are aetheists and daughter attends a state (non religeous - thats a laugh)inner city primary. Tecaher knows we are aetheists and are happy for daughter to learn about world religions but not be taught that beliefs or bible stories are fact.
We received her report today and quote:
'RE - Re teaches how to love, care and show tolerance for others. X is benefiting from these moral instructions" DISCUSS....

Am I right in thinking that there is a bit of a dig at our family values here. Can my daughter not learm about these things outside the framework of organised belief systems? Should I challenge or complain about this??

OP posts:
roslily · 02/07/2010 22:56

I am a Head of RE, granted at a secondary school, but it sounds a bit weird. However it also sounds like it is a standard statement that the teacher adds each child's name to. It doesn't say anything about her learning, her skills, evaluation etc.

I don't think it is a personal dig, but I don't think it is great.

Slambang · 02/07/2010 23:06

What Roslily says. This statement is generic blurb which is written on every single child's report in that class.

RE lessons will be about why it's nice to share, why we should all respect each other, why we're all different but special etc .

Hardly objectionable really, it it?

differentnameforthis · 03/07/2010 00:05

"love, care and show tolerance for others" is not within the framework of organised beliefs.

They are important life skills. They are taught to the class as a whole, your daughter isn't being singled out.

I doubt they are doing it as a dig to your family values & I don't think they will harm your family values, unless your values mean that she is to "hate, not care about & be intolerant of other"

Mumcentreplus · 03/07/2010 00:08

...sounds like basic respect to me..

Original poster
JJ6 · 03/07/2010 00:59

I agree totally that these values are generic but it is the fact that the report states that the morals come from RE, I think PSHE would be a preferable subject area. My daughter at the age 6 understands that God does not exist and that the bible is a story and not real. Bible stories may contain some useful morals but it is open to interpretation and some very immoral opinions, I have had discussions with 'christians' who have homophobic and very judgmeental views on certain issues. I am not happy with RE being seeen as the guardian of moral education.

OP posts:
toccatanfudge · 03/07/2010 01:02

JJ6 - trust me - homophobia is not purely the reserve of the religious folk - I know several atheists who have some extremely distasteful views

differentnameforthis · 03/07/2010 01:16

"My daughter at the age 6 understands that God does not exist and that the bible is a story and not real"

That is your opinion & would be better said as my daughter 'believes' that God doesn't exist & doesn't believe the bible to be true. Because plenty of people do believe it & learning to be tolerant of that is an important life skill.

Because I believe that God does exist & that the bible, in part is true. Therefore I am Christian. I am not homophobic & I don't judge anyone. Religion is not a one size fits all.

For your daughter to understand this is her being respectful of others & their opinions. My dd is 6 & has decided she believe in God, her best friend is 6 & Pagan. They respect that they have different beliefs & they often tell each other why the believe what they do. They still love & care for each other.

I don't see what difference it makes where she is taught it, tbh. I don't understand why you object to her knowing these values. To me, caring for & respecting people is a huge issue & to me, far more important for my 6yr old to know this than some of the stuff she learns.

Original poster
JJ6 · 03/07/2010 01:18

Yes I am sure....... but some of the people I have met said that they must convert them and ensure that they know if they continue being gay they will burn in hell. The problem with religeon is that it gives some people the 'belief' that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
I am not tarring everyone with the smae brush, I have worked with ordained members of the church and got on very well with them as they were open mnded, accepting and had parallel value basis to me.

OP posts:
toccatanfudge · 03/07/2010 01:23

as a little aside, I'm a Christian, and my DS2 has been to church almost every week without fail since he was a couple of weeks old - so you can imagine I had the (c&p'd) comments of

"has enjoyed listening to religious stories and is beginning to understand their meanings"

thank fark for that - I would have hope that many years going to our toddlers service, our after school service once a month and Sunday school every week he would by now have a vague idea what some of the meanings of some of the bible stories are

Original poster
JJ6 · 03/07/2010 01:25

differentname for this

The reason I say that my daughter understands that God does not exist is that we have taught her to only accept what can be proved. If you are religeous you can believe; as an aethiest I don't believe that there is no God (as I have no belief system) i understand that there is no God. If there is proof of a God then I will understand that there is a God. I have not forced my understanding on my daughter but she has absorbed it as she would if she was brought up in a religeous family.
Live and let live!

OP posts:
toccatanfudge · 03/07/2010 01:29

my children are told that we "believe" - because I want them to be free to make up their own minds when they're older enough.

toccatanfudge · 03/07/2010 01:36

sorry meant to add - I think you can "believe" (or disbelieve) something without "knowing".

I quite often believe my my friends/children etc tell me.........but I don't know that what they are saying is true.

I don't believe that the Americans landed on the moon either........especially since they are the only people ever to have been there

Original poster
JJ6 · 03/07/2010 01:39

Maybe it is because i am not religous but I find the term 'I believe' a very wishy washy and non commital statement.
It says nothing and does not commit. I am a christian is a statement I believe I am a christian is not. i am raising my child to be clear about her convictions and what she understands to be true. She understands her Grandpa is dead, she 'believes' in the tooth fairy (but realy knows that it does not exist). By this logic she also understands that the bible is a lovely book full of fairy tales and that is fine by me.
By the way our family are very understanding and respectful of other faiths, my daughter understands why some of the girls in her class wear the hijab. I am so pleased that she is far more exposed to other cultures than I was at her age.

OP posts:
Original poster
JJ6 · 03/07/2010 01:46

toocantanfudge
I can see where you are coming from but surely you only believe your children because you KNOW THEM. you may not believe other children whom you do not have knowledge of. You are talking about an understanding of someone you know which is not the same as a belief in something that is not tangible, cannot be seen etc
Not really relevent to the discussion about belief system.

OP posts:
Tortington · 03/07/2010 01:51

stearing clear of how i think this discussion is going to evolve and sticking to the OP

IMO parents are the guidance the moral compass by which children measure.

so if the report bothers you - think of a nice way to tell the school to fuck the fuck off.

CheerfulYank · 03/07/2010 01:52

I use "I believe" when talking to DS too, toccatanfudge. I believe in God but want him to make up his own mind.

OP, in my opinion YABU. Not to tell your daughter that you don't believe in God, certainly (since to tell her otherwise would be lying) but it doesn't sound like what she's being taught is detrimental.

Original poster
JJ6 · 03/07/2010 01:54

Custardo
Thanks for your enlightened and succinct opinion. This is what I feel like doing but maybe in a more moderate fashion.
have a good weekend!!

OP posts:
Tortington · 03/07/2010 01:55

a pleasure ..as always !

CheerfulYank · 03/07/2010 01:56

It's great that you're understanding of others, though, OP. Some people are not, which is irritating. Have a good weekend too, and good luck with this!

kickassangel · 03/07/2010 02:11

it sounds suspiciously like one of the 'objectives' outlined in RE, turned into a 'statement bank' then printed en masse on every report.

e.g. as a sec english teacher, i HAD to teach pupils to do paragraphs, therefore, those at the relevant stage, had 'x is now able to paragraph confidently and will now ...'

in other words, it's govt speak. it may annoy you, but is no judgement of you.

believe me, when you have to write 200 reports in one week, you don't have time to make personal judgements.

differentnameforthis · 03/07/2010 03:42

JJ6, what you are objecting to her being taught are NOT religious values. They are basic life skills.

So do you have an objection to her being taught to respect people & what they believe? Because if you do, you have problems ahead. If you don't, I don't see the issue.

nooka · 03/07/2010 04:04

I think that JJ6 is just objecting to the description of RE, as it could be taken to imply that if you aren't religious you don't teach your child "how to love, care and show tolerance for others" and that your child needed moral instruction to make up for it. It would annoy me too (I'm also an atheist, but the second part would annoy me if I was religious too).

toccatanfudge · 03/07/2010 08:13

well I don't believe I'm a Christian - I know I'm a Christian, who believes in God.

I accept or take it to be true that's there a god.

I don't know that there's a God, just like I'd like to defy and Atheist to prove there's no God -

and LOL @ kickassangel using the phrase "believe me" after the discussion on the word

toccatanfudge · 03/07/2010 08:15

actually you kind of summed up my opinion

"It says nothing and does not commit."

that's good for me - I don't want my children to "commit" to something just because it's what I do/think/believe/have faith in.

I want them to be open to their own decison when they're older.

sarah293 · 03/07/2010 08:17

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