Do you believe in God?

[VirtualPA]

I am interested to know what the majority of people belive.

I personally believe in a Christian God, Heaven and hell etc.

I raised a strict an athiest

My sides.

eh?

As in "Oh, my sides." As in "they ache from your scintillating comic genius."

Oh I see. It wasn't supposed to be a joke.

So, now that Zephirine has got all the childish ad hominem stuff out of her system, can we restore normal service to the thread and get back to the actual issues? Anyone got any evidence for god?

"Maybe God doesn't want to be scientifically proven, as if we had no choice but to follow Him then that would remove our free will?"

Yes I think this is the nub of faith. Not quite sure which side of the debate you are on Diplo but I think this is the nub of it.

UQD I haven't time to read back but I will simply assume out of kindness' sake that you have at last bowed to logic

You were the one who brought up your mother.

Anyway, yes I'm sure asking for evidence for God will spark a marvellously fruitful debate. Good luck with that.

No. Have not seen any compelling evidence yet.

Have seen a lot of happy coincidences described as Miracles, by all faiths.

Have searched the bible for where it tells us that the Earth revolves around the sun which revolves around the galaxy on the outer part of one of it's arms but can't find the page.

Also searching for the part that explains how if we look hard in coal mines we will find fossilised remains of dinosaurs which became extinct millions of years ago.

Am wondering, with so many wars between rival religions over the aeons, why God did not think to arrive, three hundred metres tall, in a puff of smoke and tell us "X-religion is the one true one, now stop your bickering".

And am still wondering why a perfect God would make Malaria, AIDS (Although some christians have told me that was to kill the gays), Box Jellyfish, swarms of killer bees, hurricanes, Ebola, TB, Smallpox, Cancer?

Any God who is dark enough of heart to invent a lake of fire in a place called Hell where he banishes people for an eternity has to actually be some kind of devil in disguise.

A load of old nonsense.

Lol @ UQD complaining about ad hominems

Anything I bring up is in the context of relevant contribution to the debate - it was my additional point to the one Colditz made about religious people versus "nice people" in general. The fact that nobody else has taken me to task for it shows that this was a valid point.

So.

Evidence. God.

(Drums fingers.)

I can wait.

I knew a charity that was closed down because the existance of the charity was dependant on the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

The charities commission refuted that this was a justifiable cause and they lost their charitable staus.

The law backed this up when they defended their claim. Does this mean the law does not recognise Jesus or even the remotest possiblilty he could return?

backtotalk - well, it may benefit you to read the rest of my contributions, then.

Your "logic", as far as I can see, goes:

-The Christian god is pure good.
-Evil, however, somehow exists.
-Therefore god is a logical impossibility.
-But Christians believe in it despite this.
-This therefore gives them "more options".

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright.

Is that a far summation?

I'd suggest (seriously) that you go and have a look at the very interesting discussions over at Ask The Atheists. You can ask anything you like and get an answer from a wide range of eloquent, well-read atheists. Try putting your opinion there. It will be enlightening.

To be fair it wasn't really an additional point was it? It was the same point as Colditz's, just restated with the additional element of your mother's wrongness incorporated.

Zephirine, do you actually have anything useful to add, or are you just here to have a (mildly amusing, but somewhat perplexing) little series of digs at me? I'm sure it's all very funny but it would be better if you could actually contribute to the debate.

I really do not care if people have strong religious beliefs. I don't want to ram my feelings down their throat, same as i wouldn'y unnecessarily rubbish people who believe in astrology, chakras, reiki etc. Believe what you want, as long as it doesn't harm me.

What I DO protest against is the forcing of these beliefs onto children. Someone up thread says that if you don't want your children to be taught faith, send them elsewhere. Where? How many truly secular schools are there in this country? Faith truly dominates.

My dd has complained this week in her RE lessons she is taught that Christianity is truth. She is taught no other religions. I am meeting with the head of department next week to discuss this. DD goes to a non-denominational comprehensive school. Yes she needs to learn about world religion, of course, but I do not want her to be taught that Christianity is the truth.

Christians I think really oppose any kind of criticism or argument. Why can I not challenge the existence of god, and question the basic point of religion. I strongly argue about politics without tory supporters wringing their hands at the effrontery of my harsh criticism of their beliefs - why should harshly criticising religion be taboo?

Well it all depends how you define useful I suppose. Do you feel that your contributions have been useful?

If we were going to do something useful we would be busy lobbying parliament about faith school admissions not sitting here having primary school level discussions about religion.

Getorf - It's because they think they should be entitled to special pleading. And because they are within the "privilege" they can't see that's what it is. As you say, they feel what they "know" is the TRUTH, not just an standpoint, and the lack of any evidence does not deter them from this.

Someone else asked the very pertinent question of how to teach about religion in schools. I think it should be taught the same way I was taught in school about the Greek and Egyptian gods and the mythological stories around them. As something interesting, but not literally true. A myth is a myth, after all - however many people believe it.

I learnt about greek mythology in school and absolutely adored it. fantastic stories, and has certainly helped as culturally the stories have influenced a lot of modern life.

I feel the same about religions. You can learn about them, and find the subject hugely fascinating and remain passionately interested in it for the rest of your life, without having to believe that it is true.

Challenges and questions are more than welcome, GetOrfMoiLand

What is the "basic point of religion"? Faith a relationship with God and the "point" is this relationship.

Getorf in my experience many Christians welcome argument and are quite capable of withstanding criticism of their beliefs. Not all will be like this of course though. I hope your meeting goes well.

"As a parent I would appreciate the oppotunity to educate myself in a christian school (as I was) which values my beliefs and as a result should create a loving accepting and encouraging environment for my son to grow in. If you don't want that for your child then send them elsewhere."

I would love to - but I can't! All schools in this country are Christian schools - by law!

Have you all joined Accord by the way?

Thanks to all who have posted on here so far. I have been utterly hooked on this thread, to the detriment of my PhD work today!
To add my own point of view, I am a evolutionary biologist and a Christian and have no problem with reconciling the two.

There's so many interesting points raised by people, but I would just like to add something to the suffering debate. I'm afraid I don't understand why God intervenes in some cases to save people from suffering (for example he saved me from being killed (or at least horribly injured) on one occasion) but not in others. I am certainly no more deserving than anyone else. BUT I do know that he is a compassionate God (in its original meaning) and suffers with us.

There's a story that at the final judgement day, many angry people stood up to condemn God for the suffering in the world.
"Look at these scars" a torture victim shouted. "What about my suffering?" a refugee cried. "Where was God when my friend died?" another accused. So it went on, in a litany of pain and anguish. Eventually they agreed that the only fair sentence was that God should be made to suffer too. "Let him know the poverty of a refugee, let him be born into an oppressed people, let him know the pain of loss, let him be betrayed by his friends, let him be tortured and finally, let him suffer the most painful death humanity at the time can devise". Then silence fell, because all knew that Jesus had endured all this and more.
Well, probably not very well expressed by me, but you get the general idea.

the quote that so many old testament prophesies came true in Jesus Christ that the mathematical probability would be the same as picking up one particular coin out of the lot covering the area size of Texas knee deep.>>

I'd like to read this book, but having read similar books/articles on bible prophecy I think I know how it goes.

"It says in the bible in the middle of a bit about a war with king whatsit, that "The King Will Attack From The East"

"This clearly predicts the birth of christ so that's one prophecy proved already."

err what?

Can anyone find one more convincing than that? Even Nostradamus did better.

As I said in my previous post, there have been a lot of happy coincidences reported as miracles by the Christians. May I ask, Shieldbug, how the Lord saved your life, and if you actually saw him doing it, or took a photograph of the bloke at the time?