Church choice dilemma

[niminypiminy]

My local parish church, where I go regularly, is very small but very friendly and supportive. I like the congregation and my kids (one of whom has an SN) are very welcomed there. But I hate the music it's soft-God-rock sung to CDs and I find it really gets in the way of worship. The style if worship is fairly evangelical. Because it's a really small congregation and is very stretched in terms of resources, there's not very much going on outside Sunday services (except for children's and youth groups, which I do think do wonderful work in the parish).

Ok, so here is my dilemma. I've recently visited another church a couple of times, nearby but a different parish. It's a large congregation is a rather higher in CofE terms. The music is much better -- they have an adult and a children's choir, as well as a toddler music group, and tons of activities going on around the church.

So here is my dilemma. Do I leave my present congregation making it even smaller and join this other church? I know it's so much easier to have lots of things going on when you've got lots of willing hands -- so should I stay and help build something better where I am? I have been praying about this but still don't know what is all for the best.

Sorry this is so long, but if anyone has any advice, I'd really welcome it.

A hard decision I think. However, you need to put to one side the facilities or lack of them and just think about how you feel worshipping by yourself and as a family at each chruch. Which one makes you feel closer to God, in whoch one are you most comfortable to pray? Faith is a very individual thing, different people have different needs and different congregations will appeal to different people. Why not try a period of alternating between both chruches and just see how it goes?

You could continue to support your local parish on sundays and join in with some of the other activities at the larger church as well?

No-one will mind if you aren't 100% affiliated to one place of worship.

If you find the perfect church, don't join it. You will only spoil it

I must confess, MmeTB, I'm finding it hard to see where the joke is in that. It reads as a personal dig, though I'm sure that wasn't your intention.

Churches are communities, aren't they, of people coming together to worship God, and I suppose I feel that communities are never everything you might want, and if they're your community you have to be part of working to make them better.

I guess that this is a decision that maybe will resolve itself in time, and in the meantime Shelscrape, your advice seems really good.

Thing is, if you find the services deeply irriating because of the music, then that is a bit thing to try to ignore.

I would sympathise with you about this, by the way, soft God rock is absolutely not my cup of tea either. And I have been in many a church music band where I have had to play it.

Anyway, I think we change and develop as we get older in terms of what we need from a church, and that is a healthy thing, and if you feel you are in a place of moving on then maybe you should listen to that and not feel guilty.

niminypiminy - it's a well known joke, intended to remind people that there is no such thing as the perfect church and there are always complications. I'm sure MmeTB didn't mean it remotely personally.

There's no easy answer to this and I am in a similar position, having a big, lively, well-resourced congregation nearby which draws a lot of people out of the parish, leaving the local churches smaller.

It's a very personal decision, but I can give you my experience and see if it rings any bells. I've opted to stick with the local church - Methodist as it happens, but the principle is the same. DH and I both feel strongly that there is a certain obligation to support your local church, in order that there can be a viable local church for everyone. We chose the one that was most suited to our needs, but not perfect by any means. It's a bit elderly, a bit staid, but very warm and welcoming and with a willingness to move forward.

Over the years, I have managed to make connections with local Christians - both within my own church and in others - who are of a similar mindset. I got involved in leading worship and there has been a slow but gradual move towards a mixture of styles that gives me enough of the style of worship that I thrive on to nurture my own growth. I've also put a lot of personal effort into helping to develop the children's work (started off voluntarily but I'm now working for them part time as a children's worker).

Importantly, I need to be sure that my own children are going to be able to grow up within the church with a reasonable chance of finding their own way in the faith. If I didn't think that could happen, I would be much more inclined to move elsewhere, at least for the time when my children are at home, purely for their benefit.

So I guess I'm asking whether you think your local church can nurture your family's faith - and are you in a position to put in any effort that might be needed to do that. If you think it's a lost cause, move for your children's benefit. If you think you can make a go of it, stick around and see where God leads!

Smithagain, thanks (and for exaplaining the joke, silly me). You have hit the nail on the head: I do feel I have an obligation to my local church in part because the community it serves is so needy. I do in my heart of hearts think that staying and putting in the effort is the thing to do -- and my sense is that if there is anything God wants me to do in this situation, that's it. So I'll have to get my music elsewhere and stay, I think.

What about deciding on a period of time, during which you will get stuck into "serving" the local church and seeing how you can help it grow/develop.

And at the same time, finding places you can go from time to time, just for your own spiritual benefit, to worship just like you want to. Because you need to nurture your own faith, if you're going to be any use.

For me, that means going along to the monthly service that our youth worker runs, where I can join in with some loud, modern worship songs (done well, with a band, I should add) - which keeps me going through those services where we have one of our "old school" preachers who gets a kick out of lengthy 18th century hymns with turgid tunes .

And have another look at it after whatever time you feel represents a reasonable effort has passed.

I'll swap you the eighteenth-century hymns if you like, and you can have our worship songs!

And thank you: you've really helped me to see the best way forward.

Gosh yes, give me an 18th century hymn over a worship song any day!

Sorry you didn't appreciate the 'many a true word spoken in jest' statement. It really does have serious undertones.

The church you are in isn't perfect, but nor is any other. That's because a church is built on human relationships and we are all imperfect, fallen people trying to do our best. You will soon find fault in the other church (it is too big - no one knows us as individuals, etc.).

It can be heart-wrenching to have second thoughts about your home church when there is a big neighbouring parish seemingly sucking the life out of it - but that is reality. What is it about the big church that makes it such a draw? Does it square with your idea of church? Is their theology something you believe in?

The most important thing about church is that feel welcome and that you build strong relationships who support you in your Christian faith. They value you and you value them, and you see them as an extension to your family.

Not sure what 'soft God rock' is, but modern worship songs are far from soft. They are full-on passionate about how Christ died for us and how he lives in us. Traditional hymns, as a group, are a lot softer theologically and some of the favourite ones are downright heretical!

Why is your church using CDs? Are there no musicians in the congregation? Is this a place where you can step forward?

I think your choice is to have initiative in the church you are in and start up the activities you want, or skip to the other church. I wouldn't worry too much about your lack of attendance as making the old church even smaller. A church that doesn't meet the needs of their community needs to take note, and they need to transform themselves in order to transform their communities. Market economic models are actually pretty useful when it comes to churches.

Since being a part of a church family is key to the Christian faith, I would be open and candid with the vicar.

On another note, I wish people wouldn't trash worship styles. Some people prefer old, others prefer modern. It is a taste issue. It is totally wrong for Christians to voluntary divide ourselves on this topic. It has Satan rubbing his hands in glee, and it is what is known as 'petty differents in the worship of our faith'.

You are determined to take everything the wrong way.

Good luck on finding the perfect church.

No that was me being difficult, not OP.

apologies to OP

Just to be clear. I LOVE a great deal of 18th century worship music. I am a choral singer in my spare time and enjoy pretty much all styles of music, if they are implemented with conviction and appropriate to the occasion.

However, the hymns that were foisted on us selected for worship the other week did not fall into that category. They were long, turgid, incomprehensible in the 21st century and met with bafflement by the entire congregation .

This has been interesting to read. I didn't post when I first read the OP because I wanted to see what others said first! (chicken! )

I had a similar dilemma a couple of years back, and really wondered if we'd made the right choice of church when we first moved to the area. I felt very drawn to the local non-denominational community church, which has a very young and lively congregation, lots of young families, soft-rock-God-songs (which I actually quite enjoyed at the one service I attended, but OMG it was loud ). Instead, though, we ended up with the very staid and sensible local CofE church, for lots of sensible reasons, like the link to Beavers, the mulit-generational congregation (we have no family nearby), the toddler group, etc etc.

I've had my ups and downs with the church and have spent several services trying not to bang my head against the back of the pew in front through boredom and fristration at the turgid, tuneless hymns (could they not at least play them a bit quicker? I mean - we're meant to be happy, right?), irritation at the feeling of exclusion because the eucharist is sung and they seem to change the blooming tune every week so I can't join in with the responses, and so on.

But, having decided to stick with it I did very much as a PP said and got stuck in, volunteering to lead the toddler services, go on the sunday school rota, help set up a house group for young mums etc, and now feel very much a part of the community and, in showing willing, also realised that our vicar was actually desperate for younger people to get more involved and inject some life into the community.

There are still many things that frustrate me, but the friends I have made there are wonderful (from the grandmotherly ladies that help out on the creche rota at the house group, right down to the babies) and the pros now far outweigh the cons. Also, our preaching team is as intellectually robust as you could hope to find anywhere, which for me is really important.

But, yes, going back to your OP and what a couple of others have said; ask not what your church can do for you, but what you can do for your church!

HTH and good luck. Let us know?

MmeBlueberry, I am completely with you. It makes me so sad when Christians put down each others' worship styles. Why can we not all accept that we are different creations with different tastes, and that the range of worship music across the world is wonderful and varied and can speak to different people in different ways. Me, I'm a fan of 'soft God rock' (though that phrase sounds somewhat mocking in a way?) and also of old hymns when sung with passion and power. But I don't deride those who don't like my style or who love organs, which I don't.

Hmphhh.

But re the church, MrsC summed it up I think in asking what you can do for your church. There is a bit of a consumer thing going on with church these days (OP I'm not saying this about you, just a general observation - you're obviously someone who is thinking deeply about what is best for you and for the church). But there does seem to be a church shopping culture, asking what a church has for me.

I am at a small, mainly elderly congregation, middle of the road cofe church. As my husband is the curate and we felt a very strong call here together. It's hard going for me, at times, as the worship does not do it for me - but I am a great believer in finding God wherever you are and offering a sacrifice of praise - so praising through the style which is not so comfortable for you. This can make a huge difference in your life and relationship with God.

I could go on forever, but won't today grin]

Just wanted to say again how much this thread has helped me to understand what I think my heart knew anyway. I totally agree with MrsC and MHD about 'church shopping' and that was why I felt so torn in different ways about my church dilemma.

Anyway I've decided to ask the vicar to be put forward for a music ministry course the diocese is running to see if there's some way I can contribute to music in our church. I don't want to storm in and say, well I don't like singing along to CDs (that's what really gets me, it's not the songs themselves) so nobody should do it. But maybe there's something that I can give that will mean we don't always have to do it.

Also MrsC's post in particular reminded me that churches are like families in that you can't choose who's in it, and that getting on with everyone can be hard going; and also that going to church is a long game not something that's over and done with quickly. Keeping going when you don't feel you're getting what you want (or think you want) is part of it, because it's not just all about me is it?

And MmeB, please do accept my apologies for taking your words the wrong way I had a sense of humour blackout and I do appreciate your post as well.

Thanks for all your wise words everyone.

niminypiminy - yes, you're exactly right about the family thing, and it's the main reason that I feel happy that we stuck with where we were. The other church I was drawn to attracted me for the very reason that everyone there was very like me: same outlook, same stage in life, same attitudes towards faith etc. But, with hindsight, although it's a very supportive community, what actually would I have learned from it? I am far more challenged by the community in the church we stuck with. There is a diverse range of attitudes and outlooks which, for me, has 'fed' my journey in a way that it wouldn't have been elsewhere (and as an aside, I am constantly surprised by people too - for example one very stern, matronly lady who I fully expected to be very conservative and 'hell-fire' in terms of her faith is, I have found, wonderfully liberal and affirming, and full of a joy in God that completely took me by surprise).

Anyway - I'm glad you're reaching an answer, and that's a great idea re the music. Sometimes all that's needed is for someone to get the ball rolling

Do let us know how it all goes!