unsure about faith - methodists please respond!

[Builde]

Would like to discuss this with some other (anonymous) Christians.

I am a Christian from the Methodist tradition but have always believed very little of the detail and - up until now - have never thought that it mattered that much.

Our minister is superb. His sermons are intellectual and theological and I always come away feeling that my understanding of the Christian faith and the world has been deepened.

However, recently, we have had many local preachers and they preach in a less intellectual way. And this is where I struggle because they seem to ask me to believe in more.

I find it hard to believe in the Virgin Birth and I'm not even that convinced about the Resurrection. I also think that what religion you are is probably a matter of culture and where you were born.

But, with all the recent Easter services about Resurrection etc. presented in a non intellectual way, I've really struggled with being at church. Having had children, a faith is even more important to me than before; there has to be something after death otherwise I could never come to terms with the suffering that goes on in the rest of the world. And there has to be a God for those people.

So, how do I resolve the need for a faith when I believe in very little and I how do I present faith to my children?

HI Builde!

I am a Christian from no particular denomination and my faith in Jesus who died to bring us back into a relationship with God is who I am. Jesus' life was all about relationships and 'if you have seen me, you have seen the father' therefore we can safely assume that God wants a relationship with us!

I have 2 pre-school children and my eldest has recently become aware of death and it has been a relief to be able to tell her with confidence that life will continue after death but without all the bad stuff and with a God who loves us unconditionally.

However - without Jesus' resurrection, this cannot be possible. God created us in the beginning without sin and we decided to choose our own way not his. This meant that death entered the Earth - not just death of people but of the whole Earth as a punishment for our sin. "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6 v 23). God, being utterly pure and holy cannot have a relationship with his creation which is 'stained'. If God were to be stained with sin too it would be disastrous! Imagine an all powerful deity who was as selfish, proud and destructive as us! So he had to keep himself separate from us. I believe that the thing we all feel is missing in our lives is a relationship with the God we were created to have a relationship with. It's a long story and you can read it all in the Old Testament but to cut it short, his plan all along was to send his son (the Word) to die the 'punishment' death for us all. To be an acceptable scapegoat for us he had to be totally free of sin himself - otherwise his death would have been his own punishment. He also had to be willing - which we read he was in all four gospels. The resurrection is vital for the death of Christ to have worked in 'saving us from our sin' and in bringing us back into a close relationship with our creator. If Jesus had stayed dead - it would have meant he was not perfect - he died just as we would - as a punishment for our sin. If he died for his own sin then he was no different to you or me and could in no way be our salvation. Acts 2 v 24 says "it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him". I believe in Jesus' resurrection because of the close relationship I enjoy daily with the God who made me and loves me. If he hadn't raised to life, surely I wouldn't hear from God like I do?

We live in a country which doesn't want to believe in anything invisible and wants tangible proof and scientific evidence. I tend to ask God for help whenever I'm confused about something and wait for an answer. It generally comes in a way I didn't expect it!

I believe Jesus is the only way to reach God but I also believe other cultures can continue their cultural practices and traditions and believe in salvation through Jesus at the same time!

Historians have shown that the gospels were written in 'the eyewitness period' - meaning that people who knew Jesus personally were still around when the writings were being circulated. If the gospels say Jesus appeared to over 400 people after his resurrection, you'd think a few of them would have disputed what was written and the traditions of the time meant that people couldn't write nonsense - they were checked, re-checked and checked again. Do some research on it - It's good to question as it only makes your faith stronger. I don't think it's 'naive' to believe in the supernatural - if Jesus hadn't performed all the miracles he did, he wouldn't have gained so many followers from ALL classes, races and religions.

I've been reading a great book called 'the Wild Gospel' by Alison Morgan- it brings Jesus' life and teachings into the 21st Century and explains how it is all still relevant today.

With regard to how I present faith to my children - we just live it every day. We pray when things go wrong, we read from a children's bible, we ask questions about life and look in the bible for answers, we thank God for all he has given us, we ask him to protect us from bad things (this particularly works when nightmares occur!) and we try to live how Jesus lived - putting others first.

I hope I've been of some help to you - sounds like you need to do some exploration. If it were me, I'd start by asking God to lead me in the right direction and then read the gospels again. I'll gladly help if I can but I don't profess to have the answers! Your minister sounds like a good chap to approach too!

I'll pray you get some answers soon x

Builde, have you thought about the Unitarians? This is a very questioning, liberal faith which is not at all dogmatic but very exploratory in theological terms, seeing faith as a necessary centre to life but not dogma. You could have a look at the Unitarian church web site here for a starting point.

With children, one thing to think about is why having faith matters to you and to try and pass that on -- and to think of the Bible as being full of the central stories of our culture that it's important for them to know.

Got called downstairs so had to leave halfway thruogh thinking about my reply...

I'm in much the same place with my faith that you are, Builde, but Anglican rather than Methodist. My church is in an Anglican/Methodist partnership, we had a Methodist preacher a few weeks ago who was so great -- really thought provoking and thoughtful, clear, not at all simplistic. I was really wowed by the sermon. But often it doesn't hit those heights and takes a much more literal line on the scriptures than I can really assent to.

But, but. It's important to me to go to church to be part of the body of believers, and I find it spiritually renewing and challenging simply to be there and to go through the liturgy and communion. I'm not sure I have any answers let alone all of them! I suppose God keeps me going, even if I'm deeply unsure about doctrine, and also I need the company of others in my journey of faith.

I apologise for my hugely long answer which seems a bit sermon-like reading it back! I am a very black and white person- I feel that if something is absolutly true, then it's true for everybody and if some stories of the bible are true and not others, then how can you know which ones are which? I need to believe it all, or nothing. I have done the questioning and research and have found out lots to support it too.

But I realise that others don't feel like this- my sister-in-law being one. She says she doesn't know what is true, but what she does know is that living with God daily works. I don't see that I've actually got more faith than her, just because I believe all of the bible.

Builde - I was brought up intensely in the Methodist tradition. Went to church 8 times a week, etc. The 'loss' of my faith followed a similar path to you.

I came back to a more private personal faith and moral code as I got older and wiser and had children. It is that personal private faith and moral code that I try hard to convey to my children by example and by talking to them about issues that affect us as a family.

I have thought seriously about becoming a Quaker. Many UK Quakers are aetheist but others express a more general but low key Christian faith.

Something like that approach may suit you.

Thank you to everyone for your replies. I did even read the whole of Ell11's, despite its length! Elli - thank you for passing on your SILs views as well.

I've just started reading some CS Lewis (his theological books in tandem with the Chronics of Narnia!)and have decided to do some further reading and possibly attend some quiet evening services at our local cathedral (where they get in some good speakers).

Niminypiminiu; I think that what your wrote is what I feel. And - as you do - I feel good about taking part in communion and being with other Christians. I also enjoy reading bible stories to the children because they are good stories, whatever your religion.

Sorry not to be able to post as a Methodist. I was in something like your position I believe until recently. I found Karen Armstrong's books really helpful but as you say, what you hear in the pulpit is frequently very offputting in comparison (i remember one sermon five years ago that said 'unless you believe everything in the Christmas story is true there is no point in being here' so I didn't go back for almost a year...)

Unitarians a good idea, also have you considered attending a Quaker meeting? That can be a truly amazing experience.

In the end I haven't been able to reconcile any of it so not much use really, although part of that comes from my great hope that there is nothing after death, which makes a lot of the Christian faith antipathetic to me. As far as religion goes in the family, my dh has lost his faith and I really can't say or imply to him that prayer works in the sense of changing the physical world, when he continues to suffer so much (I do still believe that praying and/or meditation techniques can change the person who prays; you could talk to your children about thinking of people and loving them, perhaps?)

Sorry to intrude if this is not helpful.

It's all helpful, thank you.

Just to find out that other people have doubts is helpful in itself.

Hi

Interesting to read all this as I feel I am still on a 'journey' (I guess we all are!) establishing where exactly on the spectrum of faith / belief I actually am, especially with regards to how to present faith to my children (eg I am happy that its ok for me to think / feel how I do, but less happy with how to explain it someone else, especially a child! Does that make any sense?). I dislike being asked if I am 'religious' because, although I know what people mean by it, I don't think I am and always feel like answering 'No, I'm not religious, but I do have a Christian faith'.

What I do find tremendously reassurring though is the huge spectrum of belief that is out there - from the very literal / dogmatic to the much more liberal and 'vague'. I find this even within my own church and congregation, which reassures me that its 'ok' to think diifferently from others IYSWIM. Also, it keeps me going back. Like I PP, I need the fellowship of others and find their different approaches to faith both interesting and enriching.

And, if I'm honest, I don't think it really matters how far you can accept / go along with the church dogma / teaching / doctrine. I don't think it matters if you struggle to believe in the literal truth of the resurrection or the virgin birth, for example. What matters is whether your faith and the beliefs you do hold enable you to live your life with greater strength, peace and understanding of others. Does the faith you have enrich your life? If so - go with it. Continue to explore and ask questions, but don't beat yourself up if you cannot 'believe' all the right things. Faith is not a 'tick box' exercise. You are not excluded from it because you can't tick 'yes' for every single box.

Sorry - I'm not sure any of that actually answers your question but I hope you are reassurred that you are not alone.

Oh - and a final word. I often ask myself what it is that makes me a Christian, rather than, say, a Buddhist or a Hindu (both of which I find very appealing). I agree with you that it is largely cultural, but for me it is also this: whatever it is that God is, I believe that Jesus was / is its most perfect human manifestation. Its that belief that makes me a Christian - not a belief in the Virgin birth or the resurrection. HTH.