What is the point of a parish?

[pumpkinontoast]

should it function as a community?

And if it is faltering as a community ? would you (a) not worry ? perhaps you go to church to pray, not to speak to your neighbours? (b) just stop going (c) get in the car and drive to the next nearest parish or (d) feel that if you left you would be making it harder for those who cannot just drive to the next nearest parish and therefore you should stay and do everything you could to help rebuild the community side of it.

I?m trying to get some perspective on things that have been happening in our local church.

Thanks

We don't know in what way your parish church is faltering as a community, so just tell you generally how I act (rightly or wrongly). If I don't like the feel of a church, the atmosphere there, in particular with regard to how they treat dc and how it is for my dd, I go somewhere else.

There is something to be said for sticking at it and trying to improve the situation of course but in all honesty I would go elsewhere unless say it was good in the past and has changed. As soon as my dd were affected though, I would look for an alternative.

mind you I am overseas and I go to international churches not a local parish where we are since I don't speak Czech

One would hope a person under strain would recieve support from others in their parish, which seems to happen much more in other countries AFAICS like USA.

IME Americans are very good at this whole church family/fellowship side of things but I only know American churches in overseas communities so I don't know about the USA itself. The Am churches I know have a lot of get-togethers, special occasions, many family dinners, loads of things for dc. I'm not so keen on all the hugging and kissing being a stiff Brit but I can see they are welcoming and generally kind

I see a parish as a community. In saying that, I would also consider going to another parish if I didn't enjoy mine. I do go to my local parish even though I don't work locally, my dc aren't at a local school etc. I like it as it is small with a lovely pp, whereas other parishes where I have lived before have been too big and anonymous.

I don't think a parish needs to be a community of local people though- a community of people who all attend that church for whatever reason or circumstances have brought them there, is still a community.

I applaud you thinking about becoming more involved as I think that is key. Sometimes I think I would like to be, but always find an excuse not to be.

Can you be more specific with what the problem is?

It?s not an atmosphere problem ? more a communication problem. It is difficult to sustain a community if there is no means of communication. We used to have more social events and annual fundraising events but these have fallen off and people are drifting away, and our minister (who is generally a lovely person and good with the small handful of children remaining), tends to thwart any attempt to improve things (not deliberately ? he just doesn?t seem to understand). At the moment I feel like I am the only person trying to do anything about it, and although I?ve had encouragement from other parishioners, our minister clearly thinks I am obsessive about it all.

I don?t know if I am expecting too much ? I lived overseas in an isolated area where the parish was really like my family ? maybe it is too much to expect the same in England where distances between parishes are much smaller.

How long have you been attempting to fix it? I think it is great you are trying to, and don't give up straightaway. However, if no-one else is receptive to your ideas, and you don't find what you are looking for, then why not try another parish? It may be that the other members of your parish is quite happy with the status quo. But if this is not what you are looking for, don't feel bad about going elsewhere.

I was at another parish recently for a christening and was struck by how much more of a community it seemed to be than mine- and I like mine ( but admit I tend not to get involved in the social side)

I've been actively trying to do something since last year when I decided someone had to, and if no-one else would I would have to.
But it brings me into conflict with our minister - well, not exactly conflict - he is usually supportive but doesn't really think that community is important - and we have ended up shouting at eachother ...

I feel so strongly that we should make the community work locally but I am not sure if that feeling is sensible, and worth fighting for. Or whether I am getting it all out of proportion and it would be better for everyone if I just went elsewhere.

"...he is usually supportive but doesn't really think that community is important..."

• well, to be fair, I should say - he is usually supportive but doesn't really think that community is as important as I think it is...

but when I speak to other parishioners a lot of them feel the same, they just don't want to get so involved that they get shouted at.

"We used to have more social events and annual fundraising events but these have fallen off"

When did the parish use to have all that? Before you moved there and you have heard about it, whilst you were there and you have noticed the change? Is the minister new or was s/he there when things were better?

I'M surpised the minister would be so annoyed at you wanting to improve communication that it gets down to a shouting match. Hard to imagine really.

I don't know what might be bugging him/her. I'll just say he.. When we were in Germany, I went to our local German parish church but didn't really gel with it. It was a busy parish, churchbursting full and always the same few people running everything. It was quite anonymous I thought: go in, sit down, get up, walk outside, be ignored by everyone and go home. I think that is all some people want. I tried a different church (foreign community). First day we went, I was at the coffee morning afterwards and a man came up and suggested I run the church committee. Excuse me? Huh? I knew no one there, nothing about it and I'm supposed to essentially run it. That was too much for me, I wondered if they try it with every newcomer as a kind of initiation test.

After a bit of trial and error I found somewhere else where I felt welcomed, was inivited to participate in some (more minor) way and we were spoken to, contacted on our birthdays, received email newsletters, Christmas cards, everyone learnt the names of all the dc it seemed to me. Different feel. I don't know maybe in the UK that might feel too invasive although for expats it is cosy, as you know

The parish had these things when I first moved there about 7 years ago, and for a couple of years after that, so I know it is possible, but there was a gradual decline. We had a new minister about 2 years ago and we all hoped this would bring a breath of fresh air into the parish - but everything is a bit flat - and it is difficult for us to turn that around if we don't have the opportunity to bounce ideas off each other.

I wonder where we could get a cheap hot water urn from...

Our minister is a puzzle - supportive most of the time then suddenly intransigent, misinterpreting and over-reacting. Unfortunately it has caused people to back off and stop getting involved. But it just makes me more stubborn. Communication is so important to me that I don't want to let random shouting matches stand in the way - don't know if I'm being reasonable about that though, or if our minister is right in thinking I'm a little obsessive about it...

hmm can't really fathom the minister from what you've said on here.

All I can think of is

1. get there bit by bit in little steps rather than risk overwelming him. I suppose he is reading this as criticism of him/the job he is doing?
2. safety in numbers. Do you have a church council of some kind or some sort of group that gets together to organise fund-raising and so on? If not, would you consider setting up some house groups, bible reading, work through something together etc. Within the context of that type of small group, maybe ideas for expanding community life could be exchanged and the group could make an appointment to speak to the minister and make some suggestions

If it is so bad that he and you have been shouting at each other, I might be inclined to look at another parish really. It's still sounding a bit odd to me.

I suppose you have a church bulletin board, so if you had groups going, you could advertise it up there. Maybe someone could print a little notice off when anything is up which gets handed to people as they come in the churc. Do you have greeters?

I expect you do not want to be more explicit about the communication and how you have tried to address it, so am just giving you the general ideas that spring to my mind.