Is the crisis in the Catholic Church being mentioned in mass today?

[glasjam]

I'm an ex-Catholic and know that many practising Catholics are finding the current situation very difficult to process. Wondered if it was being referred to in sermons today, either in a direct or roundabout way? Genuinely interested.

It's Palm Sunday (Passion Sunday) so the liturgy is already quite busy, plus processions through towns, etc.

BUt our priest stood up and apologised for what had happened about five or six years ago and warned there was more to come. At that point all the child protection measures were coming in as well.

Obviously these latest cases relate specifically to Ireland and the US, and to whatever the pope may or may not have done. So it may be different in those countries/the Vatican.

Our Priest talked about it last sunday. As abride said, a lot happening today...

Thanks for both your replies. Appreciate that the focus was on bigger things today. I am sure that many Catholics are having private discussions with their parish priests but was just curious as to what the general mood of the church services are at the moment and whether it has had an impact on public worship.

I think a lot of the bad news has been out of the hat for about a decade now, certainly in England, where quite a bit has been done to clean out the stables.

Excuse mixed metaphors there...

at mixed metaphors!

I appreciate that this is hardly news in the Catholic Church but I'm feeling that the personal focus and anger at Ratzinger's perceived role is definitely reaching a peak. The media, for certain, have the bit between the teeth in a way that I don't think they have before.

We didn't even have a homily today, the Passion re-enactment was long enough!

Our priest said a few words at the end of Mass, I think he is as shellshocked at the depth of these revelations as the rest of us.

The blokes outside the pub opposite were a lot more audible and started a chant of "Paedo,Paedo" as we walked out of Church.

Yes, it's always lovely when drunks set themselves up as moral voices, isn't it?

Our poor priest hasn't been able to wear his dog collar 'on view' for years now.

Went to mass yesterday, no mention.

I sit in my seat feeling angry, bypass the collection plate and wonder am I simply showing silent support to an institution that needs to be knocked down ane re-built.

I'm in Ireland, btw, and have a 12 year old about to make his confirmation I'm finding it all hard, very hard.

I've never lost my belief in God but the hierachy within the Catholic Church is very far from God atm.

Just realised I missed out an, r, in hierarchy.

I know things are much tougher in Ireland--there's been more abuse and more cover-up.

In a funny way the marginalisation and degree of suspicion about Catholicism over here has stopped senior clergy getting away with things, IMHO. The church isn't part of mainstream society here in the same way it is or has been in Ireland.

You have my sympathies. TnOg. Quite understand why you are fuming.

ditto on what falafel said...

How anyone can believe in an institution that has neglected to protect abused children, therefore being complicit in their abuse, is beyond me.

Ratzinger himself directly obstructed public investigations into sexual abuse, sending letters to every catholic bishop in 2001. The letters were designed to prevent child abuse becoming publicly recognized or investigated by police.

Ratzinger's letter states that the church can claim jurisdiction in cases where abuse has been 'perpetrated with a minor by a cleric'.

Protecting children from sexual abuse is less important to the catholic church than bad PR it seems.

It's an utter disgrace.

I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with you that it's a disgrace, blinks.

I think they should roll out the child safety measures brought in in England some years ago--across the world-wide religion.

i believe that it's the tip of the iceberg. there's been such an enormous cover-up that it is an unreliable and corrupt institution from the top, down.

ratzinger's brother was also deeply involved in child sexual abuse. another cover-up.

why haven't there been more arrests? have these children and their families received justice and support?

Blinks, there's a whole thread ongoing in the News section. You can join in with those currently Catholic bashing to your hearts content and get loads to wade in and agree with you.. In Scotland things have been dealt with here the same way as in England and Wales. Disclosure for anyone doing the Children's liturgy and/or coming into any kind of contact with kids. I think because Scotland's Catholic community was very much under the cosh, there was little chance of covering much up. There was general abuse, more physical, which is awful enough. The major sexual abuses occurred in residential list d type schools run by councils.

'catholic bashing'??? how ridiculously reactionary.

you don't know anything about me. i was raised in a part of scotland that had a strong catholic community and i continue to live in a similar place. i have no problem with catholics and while i don't agree with the catholic teachings on may subjects, i have no desire to prevent or deter people from worship.

this has nothing to do with belief. the clergy hierarchy have for a looooooong time brushed child sexual/physical abuse under the carpet. they have made sure that public scrutiny and therefore justice be avoided as much as possible. they are therefore complicit in this abuse.

how a man such as ratzinger has such a position of power, considering his direct links with preventing proper investigation, is beyond me. as a cardinal he halted a church trial of a priest accused of molesting over 200 deaf boys in Wisconsin. the priest, Murphy, was never defrocked and when the now adult victims spoke out, they were rounded upon and their motives attacked.

and, sexual abuse in the scottish catholic church is well noted by the way. there are hundreds of compensation claims for victims of physical AND sexual abuse at Nazareth House, for example.

there is a campaigner for victim's rights in Scotland called Helen Holland. she is catholic and was formerly a nun. working with groups such as the government backed Survivors Scotland, her belief doesn't prevent her from asking questions and seeking justice for victims of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of clergy.

'You can join in with those currently Catholic bashing to your hearts content'

Why, whenever anyone critises religion, is is always 'religion bashing'?

The Catholics church and indeed, this pope, in his previous position, seem to have behaved appallingly and are still trying to hush things up.

When you have people in the church (the chief exorcist!!!) blaming Satan for this and saying it goes on everywhere is just unreal.

It is especially bad taste in the mouth, when these people preach morals and ethics and what is right.

It makes me sick and hope it opens peoples eyes to the fact that being religous has no correlatio with being good.

Also, when the pope says tht homesexuality or premaritl sex is wrong, people realise that this is ridiculous to base it on an anarcharnist story book and pretend its anthing other than that.

Rant over (for now)

Yes, Catholic bashing...loads of discussion on this very topic on the other thread both PsOV discussed, rationally and irrationally. There are questions that need proper answers and accusations and charges being levelled right, left and centre. All anyone here knows is what and increasingly anti-Catholic press are printing. You have your minds made up. Trial by Mumsnet. But tell me this, if evidence presents itself that completely clears the Pope of any wrong doing, which one of you will be the first to come on here and say, oops, I was wrong....?

HAHAHAHAHA.

the letters from Ratzinger to the bishops are in the public domain now. it's not new news.

and because my point of view isn't wholly original, i'm not allowed to add to this thread.

you are the bigoted one here.

As are the Diocesan and Vatican responses to the Fr Murphy case and it will make not a jot of difference to what you think. Every time someone mentions the Catholic Church almost in any context there is always someone gagging to jump in and start Catholic bashing. It's so predictable...

Tis Holy Week, off to Stations of the Cross.

/. But tell me this, if evidence presents itself that completely clears the Pope of any wrong doing, which one of you will be the first to come on here and say, oops, I was wrong....? /

Even if this happens, which it doesnt look like it will, he will still be guilty for many thousands of HIV deaths in Africa Re: condoms and extreme homphobia based on his crasy 'morals'.

BTW, its not Catholic bashing.

Its just a fair criticism.

If you think its not fair, dont cry, 'bashing', try defending its position (or even better, challenge your beliefs)

JonnyL - I do not think you can blame the catholic church for its stance on condoms - as it also has a stance on fidelity and premarital sex. If people choose to not use condoms but have various sexual relationships I do not think you can blame the catholic church, which teaches one marriage unless your partner dies. If both sides have been faithful its unlikely they will have HIV. If you note the chance of actually getting HIV from sexual contact, it implies alot of promiscuity in a population to have such a high infected population in some areas- again, not what the catholic church teaches.
please see table 1

And if you are going to start talking about 'homophobia' in religion, then do not just single out catholicism, also look at Islam etc etc.