speaking in tongues

[tiredlady]

If anyone has got time,could someone explain about speaking in tongues please? What is it? Why do people do it? What does it mean?
I don't want to give away too many details, but I work in mental health and this has come up in a client.I know I could just google this but I prefer to get a MN opinion first!
Thank you!

Do you want a theological explanation, or an experiential one, from the point of view of people who believe it happens today or from the point of view of people who believe it died out with the apostles?

There are a gazillion different approaches taken by churches on this.

If you can be more specific I will try to help (am a Charismatic christian who also has an academic theology degree).

Certainly in mainstream modern evangelical churches it is seen as quite a normal supernatural practice and man y many people do it. It is a gift of the Holy Spirit which can be used in two ways - firstly as a personal prayer language to enable your spirit to connect with God, and secondly as a message - you are given a "message in tongues" for someone else, or for the church. This second type should always be accompanied by a gift of interpretation.

In the Bible St Paul was known for playing down this as one of the "minor" gifts, and warned churches about overusing it as people form the outside would think they were crazy.

It is found in most denominations/types of Christianity (the pentecostal Catholics are pretty big in South America!). You will find people who can tell you that if you don't do it you are not really a Christian, adn others who will tell you that it is of the devil.

Big subject!

Speaking in tongues is a spiritual gift. It comes from the Holy Spirit. It is a useful way to pray when real words do not suffice. It should be done in private, unless someone who is gifted in interpreting tongues is on hand.

It is often seen as a beginner gift for new Christians because it is clear proof that the HS is working in you.

Thank you for responses. I would be interested to know if it it just something that "comes over" people or is it something that can be conjured and controlled, iyswim. Can people decide when to do it, or is it thrust upon them as it were? Aslo, on a practical level, how long would people spend speaking in tongues.A few minutes? Hours?

I would say that it is fairly controlled by the individual. You have to ask for the gift of tongues. It will never be imposed upon anyone. Conjured is probably a bad choice of words.

The duration of speaking in tongues is the same with any prayer - some short, some long. It is a conversation with God.

Any or all of that could be true, tiredlady.

It can "come over" you and you almost "can't help it" (my experience when it first happened to me) but it should always be under your control. You can decide to do it, and to stop. "Conjuring" is not a word I would use for it when talking to a lot of Christians (I have experience in mental health and know what you mean, but many would take that terminology really badly, thinking you were suggesting they were practicing witchcraft (I've met my fair share of extreme pentecostals!).

Some people do it for minutes, others for hours. Some people don't do it for weeks, then do it a bit. There are some people who would do what they call "walking in the Spirit" when pretty much all the time they are not talking to people or praying in their mother tongue they are praying in tongues - they feel this gives them spiritual power. The Bible tells us to "Pray continually" - this is a way of doing that.

Sorry about the terminology. Didn't mean to opffend. I meant "conjuring" as in the way I might "conjure" up a victoria Sponge . Something I have decided to do, of my own accord iyswim.
So could it be appropriate for someone to withdraw from usual activities and dedicate themselves solely to prayer in tongues for a period of many days?

It could occasionally be seen as appropriate, but it would be very unusual.

For example, when my large Baptist church was seeking a new Senior Pastor, the leadership team spent a whole day in prayer - they went away for a day retreat to listen to God about the appointment. But that's quite unusual.

For an individual, if it was not in terms of some major life decision, or some feeling of need to intercede for a particular situation, or part of a deliberately embraced lifestyle of prayer (like a modern day hermit or monk - they do exist!) then it would certainly be seen as extreme in most mainstream charismatic churches.

You would have to put it in the whole framework of the persons other MH issues, which it appears you are going to be more than capable of doing, you sound very thorough and understanding!! (did that sound patronising? I'm trying to pay you a professional compliment!)

Please ask if you want to knwo any more, but I am also one tired lady and am off to bed now!

I'm not sure that you make such a conscience decision. For example, I would not sit hear now and declare that I am going to pray in tongues tomorrow.

More likely, I would be praying in English and then get stuck somehow. I might then ask the HS to give me the gift of tongues, and then continue my prayers in a new language.

Thankyou for your help ladies. I am off to bed too, but I am not sure if I am any closer to understanding the background of my client. My opinion is that their current behaviour is indicative of an episode of mental illness. Some family members agree with me, however other family members are viewing this as a spritual phenomenon as is the church involved. There is no previous history of mental illness, however this is not obviously the only symptom. Problematically the other symptoms are beliefs of a religious nature, which though sound bizarre, could potentially be seen as appropriate in the cultural environment of this church and it's followers
If you are still reading this thread tomorrow morning, could you tell me under what circumstances you might view speaking in tongues excessively as worrying and out of the normal. Thanks again

I feel uncomfortable that the notion of speaking is tongues is linked to mental illness.

One way of discerning whether an apparent spiritual gift is true is whether it is encouraging, uplifting and edifying. A spiritual gift is totally positive.

If your client's glossolalia is in any way negative, then it is right to be skeptical.

If, however, it is edifying, then there is a good chance that it comes from the Lord. If it is in-between, and harmless, then what's the bother?

It's not just the speaking in tongues though that is the concern. It is the excessive nature of it, the social withdrawal, the neglect of other duties and responsibilities that accompanies it.
I guess my problem is trying to ascertain what is normal prayer behaviour in this religious group,and what is extreme and worrying and could be a sign of mental
illness. As I said some of the family are very concerned and feel this is inapproprate for this person, however some family members and some members of the church are viewing this change in behaviour as a religious experience.
I am in no way impling that the every day speaking in tongues is a sign of mental illness. I hope I didn't gave that impression in my posts. I am just trying to understand what is appropriate and what is inappropriate.
Mme Blueberry, you say that if the glossolalia is negative then I should be sceptical. Could you explainwhat you mean by negative. I don't understand what this person is saying so don't know if it's positive or negative iykwim.
Thankyou again for taking the time to answer my questions. I do appreciate it!

Isn't it inappropriate if it is interfering with everyday functioning?

mrsrisotto,yes, that is my thought as well, but others are insisting that the person is having some kind of overwhelming religious experience.
I am still treating as I see fit, however it makes things difficult when dealing with some family. That's why I started the thread. To try and understand what "normal" speaking in tongues is about and when it's practice would be construed as abnormal

Although it can be an overwhelming experience, it is also under your control.

I'm not medical (though my dh is a GP) but due to being something of an "expert patient" after years of psychiatric care, to me it sounds odd.

But I know what you mean about family being convinced otherwise. I did (for a short time) move occasionally in very pentecostal circles - tbh it can be quite oppresive and unhealthy - hence swiftly removing myself from this kind of thing!

I still go to a charismatic evangelical church where things like speaking in tongues/interpretations, prophecy, healing etc are part of the service. I know most people that I know there would think this was beyond the bounds of 'normal'.

And another thought - churches which encourage this extreme behaviour, or even tolerate it, tend (and I say tend, but this is my experience) to have a very very wary approach to mental illness.

Either it doesn't exist, or you should just pray and it will go away, or it is a sign of demonic oppression etc .... It can be a very scary place to be for someone with a mental illness.

Tongue-speaking occurs in most religions and can either be in a state of "religious trance" (or hysteria) or can be quite calm and under control and the person might choose to speak in tongues instead of praying 'normally' for example.

Yes there are links to mental illness, in particular psychosis. Some people think that the conscious/unconscious barriers that come down in the person's ego in both a state of psychosis and a state of religous ecstasy are very similar, if not the same. So it is possible that the "mechanism" might be similar for both psychosis and religious ecstasy (of which tongue speaking is a common symptom).

There has been limited work done on this area although this is one person whose work is interesting.

However this is unlikely to help you much because, as others have pointed out, mental illness is often "diagnosed" as demonic influence in the communities in which this behaviour is commonplace.

Thanks for your insights weegiemum. Personally I am concerned about the church's position in this case,and worry about my patient's vulnerability should he continue to attend there after he recovers. I don't think the denial of mental illness is helpful for someone trying to live with it.

Thanks for the link MP. Will digest it later

Which denomination are we talking about?

I am really showing my ignorance here. I would have said the church was evangelical/pentecostal assuming the two were synonymous, but is that not the case? Are they different?

As someone who is not religious, but was brought up in an Orthodox christian family, this is very unfamiliar to me. Hence all the questions!

evangelical = broadly taking the bible literally. But that depends on what you mean by taking the bible literally. I know evangelicals who think there are no supernatural gifts today, and others who think you can't live without them. Your hat wearing psalm chanting sabbatarians in the Scottish Highlands are as evangelical as your happy clappies!

charismatic = agrees that there are spiritual gifts (charismata) today and think they are important and use them in worship and personal devotions.

pentecostal = (I think!) - more extreme than charismatic. Often tied in to denominations arising from revivalism.

Most charismatic/pentecostal churches are also evangelical. Not all evangelicals are charismatic/pentecostal.

I know it is subjective, but Wikipedia actually has some pretty good, relatively unbiased articles for the "educated general reader" about this sort of thing (don't tell my tutors from college I said that!!!). If you want to know anything more detailed, I am going in to my old college to do some reading myself at the start of next week and could look and see what they have on glossolalia and mental illness if you think that would help, there's a very easy journal search facility there too!

Have only read a few of these posts, but here are my thoughts.

My background: psychology degree, active interest in psychology and counselling. Lifelong Christian, in past was a member of charismatic churches (though never really 'experienced' the outward stuff such as tongues). Now my faith journey has taken me to a more 'open' outlook on my faith (sorry, that's quite vague - we'd need to chat for hours to explain!).

Specifically answering your question about tongues and mental illness, IME it is very common for certain church organisations to wittingly or unwittingly nurture a sort of 'oddness' about the way they encourage practice of faith. This can be as harmless as using lots of irritating jargon (people use terms like being 'under attack' or 'doing things in the flesh' - makes me want to say 'speak in English, please'). More 'extreme' examples are seen in many African churches where they practise exorcism or healing by physically beating the person to get the demons out .

As one wise African once said, "Jesus never beat anyone when he was practising healing, etc, etc, so why on earth do you think you need to?" In essence, if Christians take Jesus as their model of how to live life in all its richness, hilarity, sorrow and joy, there is no precedent for this sort of 'oddness'. He was totally involved with the everyday, ordinary people that he spent his time with - in fact, they were drawn to him. He did not shut himself off from society. He did not develop bizarre personality ticks and then put them down to super-spirituality. He was a normal bloke, as well as all the extraordinary stuff about him.

So IMO if your client is portraying bizarre behaviours in this way, it sounds as though he has absorbed something of the culture of the church organisation which he is a part of, and that is something which, in itself, is not a normal part of being a Christian.

i used to do bible study at a convent and some of them would speak in tongues.

took me all my time not to wet miself laughing - its total bullshit

I go to a church which sounds like the one you describe. There are certainly people I know who would say that mental illness is demonic opression, but most definitely not all. I suffered with depression and found a lot of comfort from some wonderful people whom I would have assumed the worst of.

Re. speaking in tongues, it sounds as if your client is choosing to engage in this behaviour. So it's hardly out of control, it just seems they want to pray 'too much'. As other posters have said, it is most definitely unusual behaviour, but I would say not harmful. Obviously, I don't know what other areas of their life are being neglected in favour of this. I should probably not comment anyway, being crazy and a tongue speaker!! You sound like your very good at your job to even be investigating this. I'm pretty sure my counsellor wouldn't have bothered her backside!

Evangelicalism is not about taking the bible literally. That is fundamentalism.

Is there no-one in your patient's environment who has the gift of interpretation of tongues?