Whta makes someone a Christian?

[leonardodavinci]

my dh and I have decided to get dd(8) christened and according to the priest the fact that we haven't been to church after we christened ds 7 years ago we haven't fulfilled our obligation to God. We felt like we had failed, thing is we both belive in God, tell our children religiousy type things but we don't go to church as often please don't think am judging church goers here but sometimes church goers can go to church and be nice but do unchristian things to their neighbours. My question is does anyone else feel that going to church makes you a Christian or does having a big heart, praying and believing matter as much. Would be very grateful to anyone who replies to this.

personally starry night i don't know many christians who think they are right and everyone else is damned so please don't tell me what i think! Self righteousness is one of the evils jesus warns against.

Crikey! i've only got that from this thread!! All the people saying that you have to have accepted jesus as your saviour/son of god to get through the pearly gates. From what some people on the thread have said this is the view of 'christianity' not their own personal views.

I don't know if they are right or wrong but whenever I have spoken to religious people (whatever religion) they tell me that basically they believe I am going to hell (they do seem sorry about that and pray for my soul though )

not what i'm saying starry night. sorry if you've got that impression. Christianity [and i suspect, at the root of all faiths] is about Love. This is not wishy washy, loving small animals kind of love, it is about difficult, limitless, unconditional love towards your fellow human being.Not just other christians. And noone can tell anyone if they are going to heaven [and if heaven exists it is in no form that any of us can imagine]. hat is between each individual and God.

I must admit Ruty, i'm being a bit 'tongue in cheek' here. I don't believe in hell, let alone think i'm going to it so other peoples views about that don't really bother me. I am with you about heaven being something beyond our imaginings - and i'm looking forward to finding out! (ooh, that sounds grim doesn't it - you know what I mean).

BTW I do believe Christ is humankinds's Saviour but not so I'm getting into heaven. Just because I believe its the truth. But I can still accept wisdoms and insights from other Faiths and other secular beliefs. I look to include, not to exclude, because if we don't do that we'll all end up judging, even killing each other, and Christ did not want that.

do you or do you not have to accept jesus as your golden ticket to get into heaven or be damned for eternity?

First of all custy everyone has a different view - there are many arguments theologically. I don't believe in a vengeful God who damns non believers into eternal suffering or darkness. Christ did not talk about God like that - others have. People who do real evil on earth [i can think of a few politicians] may suffer ib the afterlife because they have eradicated all Love and Good from their consciences. And believing in Christ is not about getting into heaven. Its about this life. Be the best person you can be, If you have love in your heart i don't believe you are ever damned. But Christ is much more than Christianity . Don't tar both with the same brush.

Very interesting, Ruty - if only all believed that.

there are people out there starry night! And there always have been.

see am confused- there must be an official line on this.

as a sometimes practicing when i feel like it or feel guilty catholic i am of the opinion that god likes good people ( good as defined by him) he lets then into heaven it doesnt matter if they went to church.

i think if you believe in christ and try to live a good life then you are enhancing you life experience now - rather than saying i love christ therefore i get into heaven

i dont see how a loving god would keep a good person ( as defined by him ) who didnt believe or worship christ our of heaven.

Which official line do you want custy? The Pope's? The ArchBishop of Canterbury's? They would disagree for a start. God's? Ah, well that depends on your interpretation of the myriad of metaphor and poetry in the Bible. Some will say they have the official line. They may be wrong. all you can do is know that Christ did not want us to judge each other self righteously. We can't 'know' everything. We have to live by our conscience and by the law of love that he taught us. And leave the rest to a loving God.

I rather like the Christian Aid motto: Life [i]before[/i] Death. I have no doubt that I will go to heaven through grace, but I don't know about others - not for me to judge. The important thing for me, though, like Ruty, is this life as that is where I have the potential to make a difference.

"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord"

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no bloss what i meant the pope and the archbishop would disagree on is whether a good person who is not a christian would go to heaven. I suspect Rowan williams would give a more complex answer theologically than the Pope would, and i suspect he would have an interesting answer.

rowam williams?

right bloss i see - am not bothring with a christ like life then - if god doesn't want me or my dh. we are obviously not good enough.

He's archbishop of canterbury.

What an interesting thread. Ruty, will you be my friend You'd have enjoyed our (CofE) home group tonight, very thought provoking. I had to lead the group with and ex vicar sitting there, no pressure!!

Leonardo, what is the vicar like generally? Our vicar would say something like this as he's very straight talking but nice with it. Personally I think getting people into Church is a good way of introducing them or reintroducing them to the Church no matter what? I only became a Christian after having my first son (age 7) baptised and know of a few people/couples who are the same as me. In fact, the couple who host our home group are recent Christians who became so this way.

Have you heard of the Start course? I helped run one last year and found it much easier going than Alpha. Though I know of some people who prefer Alpha, it's all a matter of taste I suppose? There's even a 20 minute cd version of Alpha that you can use at work. Modern life eh?

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"We are all sinner and fall short of God's glory" the bible says.

I believe in doing unto others as we would like them to do unto us, although sometimes it is hard. I was catholic, I say was as I wanted my son christened a few weeks ago and the Father at the church that my Hubby and I had been attending for nearly 6 months said to us,

"I don't really know you, and would need to moniter you for 6 months or so to see how you grow in your faith"

Now what does that have to do with this little innocent child ( 3 weeks). To cut a long story short, I walked out of there and never looked back. Went to a CofE church the next sunday, asked for our son to be christened and he was 2 weeks after. Still attending the church.

Norash's story sums it up for me. sorry went to be last night and missed you post Ulysses - love to be you friend of course!
Bloss, i agree that we all fall short of being good, and i agree its over simplistic to talk about people being good, but i said before that i think there is a universal constant that we can live by - to live by our conscience and to live with love towards our fellow men and to learn from our mistakes - to live as Christ taught us, even if we don't believe in God. I don't agree that good is relative here on earth. If you make a mistake like tell somebody you earn more than you do, or fancy your work colleague when you are married, or feel jealousy towards a friend, all these things are things we can't really avoid, we just have to navigate ourselves thru them without being motivated by selfishness or hate. they are not things that you don;t go to heaven for. I don't believe only Christians go to heaven. I believe Christ i the Way the Truth and the Life but i don't believe he's going to stop people getting in because of whatever reason. Many people are out of Christianity because of the people, and because Christ is not accurately represented - and I think this is a huge fault of the christian community and of the church. This is what i think we will have to answer to if there is a heaven, much more than the non christians will have to answer because they didn't know Christ.

i meant people are put off christianity, not 'out of'!

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it depends what you mean by 'No one comes to the Father except thru me.' I believe thats true, but i don't believe from that statement you can tell others that they will go to hell because they did not believe in God. As i said, i think christians are largely to blame for misrepresenting christ and that is often why people steer clear of Christianity.

by the way my fault as i quoted from John [your favcourite Bloss!] and tho i do believe christ is the Way the Truth and the Life we must remember its good old John talking. I don't believe a lot of what he says and don't tell me he knows everything Christ said cos he doesn't!