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Philosophy/religion

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Sign of the times - Childrens behaviour

29 replies

MUM2BLESS · 09/01/2010 22:39

I am a born again Christian, a mother of four and also a childminder of Five children from different backgrounds.

I have over a period of time read, listened and experienced the beaviour of children. Many are rude to their parents, answering back, shouting at their parents etc etc. not just the teenagers but children much younger.

Many parents are struggling to deal with their children. Some of the children have not even started school as yet. Take a look at the behaviour and childcare section and you will see what I mean!

I believe this has happened for various reasons. Could it be that children are not being discipline in SOME CASES and also a lot of people no longer are exposing their children to God. How are you going to deal with a challenging child without the help of the Lord and aslo discipline?

Can I hear from someone on this..

OP posts:
whooosh · 09/01/2010 22:40

Hmmmmm?
[hmmm]

whooosh · 09/01/2010 22:42

Totally agree discipline is needed but "The Lord" is not going to make dd eat her broccoli or stop answering back on occasions.....I respect your views and understand the problem but not sure God is the answer-for me personally.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/01/2010 22:43

even.

Yon Christian God Yahweh, especially in the OT, is pretty unpleasant when it comes to children.

frasersmummy · 09/01/2010 22:44

well tell me how the lord can help me discipline my child

I know..honour thy father and thy mother..

but tell me how apply it and I will try
i am not being facetious... any insight will be useful

tethersend · 09/01/2010 22:45

I agree with OldLadyKnowsNothing.

(Told you I would )

TimothyTigerTuppennyTail · 09/01/2010 22:45

To what Lord are you referring to?

shallishanti · 09/01/2010 23:00

Actually I take exception to this.
I have 4 dcs, 3 are teenagers one in 20s. While they drive me bonkers at home (untidiness, arguing) out of the home they are considerate, polite, co operative, helpful and generally pleasant. Nothing to do with God, just that we have always treated them reasonably, never laid down arbitrary rules, always been willing to give reasons for what we want them to do or not do, and not been scared to insist on the things we felt were important.
They did get exposed to 'God' at school, but fortunately by that time they were immune.

GlastonburyGoddess · 09/01/2010 23:01

PARP

MUM2BLESS · 09/01/2010 23:07

Wow I am amazed at the quick responses. I respect that everyone as their own views.

Let me explain years ago this country had so many christians who believed in God. Today many of the churches have closed down. What was considered wrong years aso has now become acceptable by many.

I am not saying that my children are perfect but I am letting them know what the Bible says about children obeying your parents etc. I have a part to play in the bringing up of my children. God is not going to do it for me. I often pray for wisdom in different things.

I personally would not like to bring up my kids without the help of God, which I get through reading his instructions (Bible) and talking to Him (prayer)

I can pray for my children to be safe, therefore I dont need to worry about them. Everyday I pray for my family. I believe I am benefiting from this.

I know there any defferent religions. I am a christian who believe in the God of the Bible.

I will not argue with anyone about what I believe I just live by example. I have exposed my kids to the things of God just like my parents did to me. I continued to be a christian because I got to know the God of my parents.

Isn't interesting that children naturally do things that are wrong but need to be taught to do what is right. The Bible teaches me to do what is right. If what society says is ok and the bible says it wrong then I will go by what the Bible says. I have done that over the years and that has allowed me to have such joy and peace in my life.

I believe in the bible, the OT is for my learning and the NT is what I live under. You see when Jesus died and inherited a better covenant with better promises. I can give you the scripture if you want it.

There are so many books on parenting today, changing what they are saying so rapidly, yet the bible never changes what it says.

OP posts:
EatingSwansHorror · 09/01/2010 23:07

The problem you describe is a problem to do with society as a whole, not god. TBH I think that the Christian values that this country held so dear for so long have been a contributing factor to the difficulties children and young people face today.

God is not necessary. Mental Health and a good dose of reality is. If God helps you with this then good for you.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/01/2010 23:08

LOL @ tethersend.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/01/2010 23:12

But which "God of the Bible" do you follow, OP? The one who allowed the bumping off of the first-born children of an entire nation? The one who wanted children sacrificed to him? Or the one who said "Suffer little children..."?

dawntigga · 09/01/2010 23:14

Please explain the high amount of teen pregnancies in places such as Lubock Texas which is a god fearing place in the USA. Exposure to your god is no assurance children won't do things you don't agree with.

GladSheDoesn'tHaveABookThatTellsHerHowToDoThingsTiggaxx

EatingSwansHorror · 09/01/2010 23:15

Does that mean that my children are not safe because I don't pray? Or are they infact safer because instead of relying on the power of prayer I stick the pan on the back burner and check the back door is locked?

shallishanti · 09/01/2010 23:21

'chicldren naturally do things that are wrong and need to be taught to do what is right'
I think children need to be helped to understand the consequences of their actions, then , provided they have been treated with respect themselves they will treat other people as if they matter, and a guiding principle is more useful to them than being taught 'what is right'

SpookOnAStick · 09/01/2010 23:27

Fnar, cough,

as you were.

MUM2BLESS · 09/01/2010 23:41

I will not argue that there are children who are well behaved and polite who are not christians. Not everyone is dealing with well behaved children. Some are dealing with challenging children..

EatingswansHorror you metioned that God is not necessary! Who is the first person people turn to in times of difficulties? God. I can only speak for what I personally have experienced as a Christian. I believe he is necessary to me. I am reaping the benefit daily. Yes I have challenges but I also have someone to turn to, I am happy with that.

Oldladywho know nothing, you mentioned what happened in the OT with children. Its not just reading the Bible its studying it.

Its not just living in a God fearing place its having a relationship with God. LOts of people know of God but dont KNOW him. Many critize God but have not taken time to know him. Every day I get to know HIm more, thats been over 30plus years now.

Please remember that becoming a christian has to be a choice. If you choose not to then thats your choice. If choose to become a christian and its the best decision I have made.

How can we blame God for how soicety is? I cannot accept that!

I have a responsibility to God as a Christian to bring up my children in His ways. They have to decide whether they will accept it when they are older. I have done my part.

OP posts:
OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/01/2010 23:51

I'm sorry, MUM2BLESS, I wasn't aware that further study would cast an entirely different light on those simple matters of infanticide and child sacrifice. Mine is just a viewpoint, of course, no more or less valid than yours.

I can actually see how "Christian values" (though they're not exclusively "Christian," and some would appear to be endorsed by monkeys) result in some children being better-behaved (and how exactly we quantify that, I'd be interested to know) but I'm not convinced that encouraging children to believe in a mystical Big Brother is the way to go. I think children should learn to do "good things" because it's good in itself, not because there's some celestial score-keeper.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/01/2010 23:53

(PS tethersend, it's Ok, you're free!)

MUM2BLESS · 10/01/2010 00:01

As its late I am signing off now. So many different view on this subject. Does anyone share my christian views?

Have a restful evening everyone.

OP posts:
OldLadyKnowsNothing · 10/01/2010 02:31

I hope you're sleeping well as I post.

Can you explain which values you perceive to be particularly Christian, and explain why that is so? Do you think one must be Christian to hold these values, or are other moral systems, religious or not, equally valuable?

(You don't have to, of course, I won't hold it against you! )

MrsCadwallader · 10/01/2010 06:21

Cripes

MUM2BLESS - yes, I am a Christian and yes, I would agree that my faith helps me daily, minute by minute, with my parenting. However, this has nothing to do with any concept of my kids 'honouring' me because that is what it says in the bible. In fact my kids would be hard pressed to tell you anything that appears in the bible, with the possible exception of the whole Baby Jesus thing, and Noah's Ark, and Daniel and the Lions etc.

What helps me as a parent is the security and calm of being unconditionally loved, and the knowledge that whatever I get wrong, however badly I screw up, I can try again tomorrow with a clean slate because (contrary to OldLady's comment) no-one is keeping score. That's how my faith helps my parenting (and, incidentally, this is pretty much the sum total of my kid's religious instruction from me - that and answering any questions they have as and when they arise). This isn't the case for everyone and, although I would love it if everyone shared my faith (simply because I perceive it as a 'good thing' which helps me no end) I would never in a million years suggest that parents 'fail' because they have no faith and do not teach their children faith. Parent's 'fail' (and I use the word in its loosest possible sense) for a whole host of different reasons, most of them to do with a lack of practical support and real role models. God is a guide and a support, not a role model.

My children 'obey' me (mostly ) not because God tells them to but because I (or my husband) tell them to. I'm in charge, and my kids know the fearful vengence that will be wrought if they fail to obey .

I will agree with you though that it isn't a question of just reading the bible, but 'studying' it: that is to say, it is necessary to understand in context the individual parts of the Bible, which may include coming to the conclusion that parts of the Bible are allegory or myth common to all religious traditions and cultures(much of the OT, for example). Also, it is important to be aware of how passages have been translated through the ages and the fact that word usage has changed imeasurably over the years to the point that when we read a passage we find that it means something to us that would be very different to what it would have meant way back (eg the quote 'suffer the children' above - this is, in full, 'suffer the children to come to us' which today would be translated something along the lines of 'don't turn them away, let them come, let them be children - they are important'. It has nothing to do with making children suffer )

Also, I think it's worth remembering the vast difference there is between Christian teaching (ie what the Bible says / what Jesus says) and Church teaching. Much of church doctrine has no basis at all in the gospels and has been used through the ages to suppress and control the people (there's a good reason, for example, that there was such an uproar in the C16th at the idea that the Bible should be available in people's own languages, rather than Latin - I mean, imagine the revolution if people began to understand what the Bible actually said )

My point is that blindly teaching our children religious doctrine will not help them to grow into rounded, free thinking, adults - nor will it improve their discipline as children, unless it is through fear of retribution. By all means teach them that they are loved and valued as they are, and give them a good grounding in 'right and wrong', basic moral and ethical questions and, if it seems relevant, you can also teach them what the Bible says on any given subject. But if you do, it should only be one side of the story.

Yes, my faith helps me to parent and yes, I believe it would help many others too if they allowed it to. What helps me as much though is the friendships and support I have gained through my church community. This is what is lacking today, I believe - proper extended communities, role models, and practical support. Church attendance is one way of bringing that into your life (and, for me, the best way). But there are many other ways.

CokeFan · 10/01/2010 07:46

OldLadyKnowsNothing
"...The one who allowed the bumping off of the first-born children of an entire nation? "

In Egypt? First-born yes - children at the time? Not necessarily.

"...The one who wanted children sacrificed to him?..."

Abraham and Isaac? Nobody actually died - was a test of faith.

"...Or the one who said "Suffer little children..."?"

Jesus? I think that was actually "Suffer the little children to come unto me" or something similar. Old fashioned language for "Let the children come to me" i.e., don't keep them away.

dawntigga · 10/01/2010 08:06

CokeFan

2 Kings 2:23-24 (King James Version)

23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Not in the least bit cruel to children for calling somebody bald - being torn apart by bears, nice.

LikesSongOfSongsButCanLeaveTheRestOfTheBibleThanksTiggaxx

FairyMum · 10/01/2010 08:12

Every generation of parents and grand parents think past generations of children were less rude/better behaved. I think its actually a rather offensive view to take that just because you don't believe in God, you have less values and morals in your life. Isn't that what you are saying? What are these Christian values?

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