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Original poster

Just read Richard Dawkins's The God Delusion and now need a book to "balance" it ...

26 replies

stillstanding · 16/10/2009 11:21

I found "The God Delusion" excellent and pretty persuasive (for the most part - there were some chapters I didn't agree with). But I think it is easy to be persuaded by a book when you haven't read others expressing different views on the same subject and am therefore keen to read another which "balances" it iyswim.

I've had a quick look on Amazon but most of the books I found there were theological books about particular religions or books about the history of God, neither of which I am interested in.

What I am looking for is a book setting out the case for God as it were, i.e. one that sets out the counter-arguments to those in Dawkins's book. I'm not sure if such a book exists but if anyone has any suggestions I would be very grateful!

OP posts:
GrimmaTheNome · 16/10/2009 11:26

Well, the obvious one is The Dawkins Delusion which was written specifically as a riposte to TDG. IMO it makes a few obvious criticisms but really doesn't (can't?) provide any persuasive counter-arguments.

lucysnowe · 16/10/2009 11:28

This one by Terry Eagleton:

tinyurl.com/yff3jsn

is meant to be pretty good.

Original poster
stillstanding · 16/10/2009 13:23

Thank you both for those suggestions. I had no idea that there was a book specifically in response to TGD. When I went to find it on Amazon I ended up finding quite a few that references Dawkins in the title ... must admit I never thought to search under his name for what I was looking for! Appreciate your help - many thanks.

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 16/10/2009 13:29

The Bible?

2010Dad · 16/10/2009 13:42

Before I became agnostic, I read The Case For A Creator and The Case For Faith - both by Lee Strobel. They were very pursuasive at the time and made me quite certain I wanted to have a faith.

I recommend these books.

I have since read The God Delusion and The Greatest Show On Earth, along with less mainstream books along the same lines and have changed my opinion.

The other day I had a quick flick through the Lee Strobel books and had a re-read of the chapters/topics that I felt were so powerful when I read them several years ago. Knowing what I now know, I felt they no longer held much weight and so I went to list them for sale on Amazon. There were so many for sale that they are only selling for a few pence, so I put them in the charity bag which was collected only this week! I'd have sent you them for free if I still had them.

I think they are well worth a look as they attempt to address many of the points that Dawkins and others speak about.

Good luck on your quest!

morningpaper · 16/10/2009 13:43

Keith Ward is rather good with Dawkins (think he has a chair at Oxford?) and has written a couple of books about it

morningpaper · 16/10/2009 13:44

Peter Vardy is also good with the basics

2010Dad · 16/10/2009 13:47

The Case For A Creator

tassisssss · 16/10/2009 14:00

For some bizarre reason I can't paste a link atm, but The Dawkins Letters by David Robertson would be another good option. It's on amazon.

frogs · 16/10/2009 14:07

Karen Armstrong's new book The case for god is written as a reaction to the Dawkins-esque polemic. She hasn't really got an axe to grind inasmuch as she isn't a proponent of a specific organised religion, but she does know a huge amount about theology. She's v. good at explaining why Dawkins et al have set up a straw man in their polemics, and why the current rash of fundamentialism of all stripes is not really representative of the vast majority of religious thinking.

Fascinating book, wherever you stand on the religious spectrum.

Original poster
stillstanding · 16/10/2009 16:56

Thanks all. I have now bought one of Keith Ward's books, which was strongly recommended on Amazon, together with a couple of others which got good reviews. My "to read" pile has just got VERY serious.

2010Dad, thanks for the recommended of The Case for A Creator. I admit this is one that I didn't go for as its synopsis includes the lines "But today science is pointing in a different direction. In recent years, a diverse and impressive body of research has increasingly supported the conclusion that the universe was intelligently designed. At the same time, Darwinism has faltered in the face of concrete facts and hard reason" which I can't say I agree with and which made me nervous.

Frogs, a friend of mine recommended the Karen Armstrong book which is apparently very good. My concern with it from reading the synopsis and reviews was that it was more of a history of God than the case for God but perhaps I will pop it onto my list once I have powered through the three I already have.

I wonder what my fellow commuters are going to make of my new, very erudite reading material?

Thank you again for all your help.

OP posts:
GrimmaTheNome · 16/10/2009 17:05

I'm not suprised you didn't buy that one then, barefaced lies and or extreme ignorance/gullibility in a book synopsis are rather offputting to a discerning reader!

"But today science is pointing in a different direction. In recent years, a diverse and impressive body of research has increasingly supported the conclusion that the universe was intelligently designed. At the same time, Darwinism has faltered in the face of concrete facts and hard reason"

Hope you enjoy the ones you've got and give us all some feedback - and then you can balance them againt with something more than Dawkins (according to my DH, RD really pulls his punches )

SquirrelTrap · 16/10/2009 17:12

I went to listen to RD doing a speech /Q & A session a few weeks ago. He is persuasive because he speaks sense. I since met a priest and asked him what the church thinks about the God Delusion......he had no argument AT ALL, and in fact got pretty aggressive with me for even questioning the existence in God.

I feel totally comfortable with RD arguments because despite them not being necessarily comforting, they are pretty obvious.

Original poster
stillstanding · 16/10/2009 17:44

I know, Grimma, am conscious I am now about to read three "pro-God" books against the original atheist one which I will then need to again balance ... sounds exhausting. Fear I will never get to read anything on another subject again.

Squirrel, I too feel comfortable with most of RD's arguments on why there isn't a God but less so on his arguments on why belief in belief was bad, i.e. that even if you were an atheist yourself you shouldn't support or respect others' faith. In the preface to the book he suggested that he was going to cover this but I couldn't find anything convincing other than anti-fundamentalist stuff which I suspect moderate Christians/Muslims etc would also agree with.

OP posts:
Jux · 16/10/2009 17:52

Try this one, stillstanding. It's probably as close as you'll get to the horse's mouth!

Gracie123 · 17/10/2009 10:08

"The Politically incorrect guide to the bible www.amazon.co.uk/Politically-Incorrect-Guide-Bible-Guides/dp/1596985208" is a great resource.
I don't agree with everything in it, but it is excellent at showing how the bible has been misquoted and mis-represented by both atheists and christians alike.
My DH is an RS teacher and he recommends it to many of his students.
It's not designed to be a direct answer to Dawkins, but it does cover a lot of the same topics, and some other contraversial ones besides.
I highly recommend it.

katiek123 · 18/10/2009 19:40

How about Eckhart Tolle's 'A New Earth'? King of the New Agers, of course, so that might quite understandably put you off, but he does have very sensible things to say about the core - the common ground - to ALL religions, and quotes from Christ, The Buddha and others. I really enjoyed 'The God Delusion' and have also read 'The Case for Christ' (convincing for about half an hour)but 'A New Earth' marked a turning point for me in my search for 'what it's all about'. I also absolutely loved a book called 'Holiness' by Donald Nicholl (used to cause some raised eyebrows amongst the other school mums when I read it at my kids' swimming lessons week after week, but hey...am past worrying about such little details )

2010Dad · 19/10/2009 11:04

stillstanding, let us know how you get on with the Keith Ward books!

I am just about to have a look at them on amazon now.

ChoChoSan · 19/10/2009 11:18

OP, you will be sadly disappointed if you are looking for worthwhile rebuttals against Dawkins - the most that people normally manage is ad homenim arguments, and the bottom line is that if you are arguing for God, then you are arguing against science in most cases. It seems that lots of people are not content to argue from faith, and feel that they have to meddle in pseudo-science, so things often get a bit cloudy.

Peter Vardy, mentioned above, is a classic example of one of those theologians/academics who writes about God, but i doubt they believe in god in the same way they expect 'the masses' to do so. This goes for the Archbishop of Canterbury too, who I don't think really believes in God !

TessaK · 21/10/2009 14:48

I think you're looking in the wrong place. either the science he writes about is right or it isn't. If it isn't, it will take other scientists to prove him wrong, not religious people. Science is based on evidence, faith is the complete opposite so you can't compare the two.

dadofthewest · 10/11/2009 22:44

The best book I've read in this area is The Irrational Atheist by Vox Day (see Amazon). It successfully shreds the arguments of "new atheists" such as Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens. It is a very good, thought-provoking read

mrscrocoduck · 11/11/2009 15:25

This thread is hilarious!

Dadofthewest, did Vox Day (there's a name for a separate thread!) manage to 'shred' dawkins, et al's arguments with searing 'logic' like this:

"I am saying that they are wrong, they are reliably, verifiably, and
factually incorrect. Richard Dawkins is wrong. Daniel C. Dennett is
wrong. Christopher Hitchens is drunk, and he?s wrong. Michel Onfray
is French, and he?s wrong. Sam Harris is so superlatively wrong
that it will require the development of esoteric mathematics operating
simultaneously in multiple dimensions to fully comprehend the
orders of magnitude of his wrongness.
You make the call."

LMAO!! Us atheists are quaking in our irrational boots!

rachw1 · 16/11/2009 21:06

Keith Ward, "Why there almost certainly is a God" is excellent. I heard him speak at Greenbelt Festival on the topic - www.greenbelt.org.uk/shop/talks/details/GB08-43

The talks a quick intro to the main arguments in the book.

choosyfloosy · 19/11/2009 01:24

It's interesting, I found Keith Ward's book... not very convincing.

Would love to hear you report back OP.

iwanttobepombear · 19/11/2009 01:42

God's undertaker by John Lennox is supposed to be very good ( see amazon reviews). I haven't read it myself yet ( 3 small kids inc a 6mo baby means that i don't get much further than the saturday paper at the mo )but it is on the shelf.
I have met John Lennox a few times (he's a friend of DHs uncle) and he is a very deep thinker. I have huge respect for him.