Christians' views on sex within/ outside marriage?

[MrsMerryHenry]

As ever I'm ruminating over various aspects of my faith and am interested to know what are the views of the Christians on mn about sex within/ outside marriage. I'm not referring to adultery; I mean do you think sex should only be for married couples, or do you take a different view? Or, like me, are you waffling somewhere around the middle? Why do you take the view that you do?

my mother married and got divorced her first husband was a gambler apparently.

she then married my father. She could never take communion because to do so she would have had to apologise for marrying my father.

she had nothing to apologise for

expat - sorry, didn't express myself well. I meant that I don't think Paul is particularly condemning prostitutes. Just using sleeping with a prostitute as an extreme example of sexual infidelity. In the same way that some people could rationalise and forgive an affair, but not deliberately hiring a prostitute. (I may be projecting my own cultural wotsits with this one.)

custardo - I agree that committment doesn't require marriage. However, if my DH had said to me "I am committing myself to you for the rest of my life, forsaking all others, but I don't want to get married" I would wonder why. Not that people can't have genuine reasons for that, but I think that sometimes (often?), not wanting to get married = not actually that committed.

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When christians say 'marriage' am I right in assuming they mean in a christian church?

I mean all the bits about commitment etc (which I happen to think are important) could apply equally if you got married in some heathen ceremony or even not at all. You might just promise each other 'to be there forever' one day in your living room. You may even grow to feel that way about each other without there being a moment when you announce it.

But none of that is married in the eyes of god. So which is it that is the concern? the commitment that leads to the perfect relationship with someone or the obedience to god's rules?

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Oops I should have refeshed then as some have touched on this.

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bloss/TeamEdward - thank you for your posts from Paul about sex within marriage.

I enjoyed them. You are making me think Paul was a good guy and has a pretty good message for us all on sex, marriage and his honour of women.

My next door neighbour is a female vicar and she is keen on Paul too, She spent a whole year studying him before being ordained.

I have a male Jewish friend and he told me just before he got married that in the Jewish faith a woman can divorce a man if he does not please her sexually. It is the man's duty to provide for and please his wife. As we know, the Jewish faith is also matriachal in the sense that the Jewish line passes through the mother. He exlained to me that without a Jewish wife (who he provides for and pleases) a Jewish man is almost nothing.

Now that is an interesting take on sex within marriage (and equality). I don't know if this is mentioned in the Old Testament.

Cornflake - "I've read quite a lot of threads on here where people have jumped into a new relationship with both feet, and are then really hurt when the other party turns out not to return their feelings" - interestingly, apparently the Men Are From Mars writer says much the same thing.

MCP - what exactly does 'fornication' refer to in the Bible? Is it specifically including sex before marriage? Or is that our interpretation of the word?

Also, with regard to us 'uniting' with our partners through sex, what does that mean for widowed people who remarry?

custardo: "She could never take communion because to do so she would have had to apologise for marrying my father" - whose bright idea was that? Oh, probably someone who put doctrine before people, I expect.

bloss - firstly, very thought-provoking words in your first post, I shall give them some consideration. Secondly - I think you've mixed me up with another poster re Paul: I don't know enough about him to knock his views down. I know enough to be slightly suspicious, but that's about it.

ABetaDad: I misread your post as 'Paul...has a pretty good massage for us all on sex..."!

Didn't know that about the Jewish faith, how very interesting!

onagar - I personally think of all types of publicly declared marriage as 'authentic' marriages, including that of a former colleague who had a pagan ceremony under a tree (was v jealous that I hadn't thought of such a location for my own wedding!).

bloss - how very forward-thinking of your church. I have heard of churches who have invited non-Christian couples (long-established couples living together for years) on weekends away and then insisted that they must sleep in separate rooms!

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Definitely wasn't me who said that, bloss! . Thanks for clarifying 'fornication' - out of interest, you seem to know a lot - where do you get your info from?

you still there mrsMH?

Just about hanging in but off to bed soon if I can sort out my bloody myspace thingy...how you doing?

crying

Ohhhhh, Smasher!!! . Meet you on the other thread.

Just read this thread and there are some very interesting points - I think I generally have the same opinions as ABetaDad but I wondered what people thought about the craze to wear the celebacy (purity,abstinence) rings amongst the young, particularly in America.

Whilst I will not be encouraging my daughters to sleep around a lot I would not want them to feel the need to commit to no sex before marriage. I believe that sex can be built into such a big deal and so much emphasis can be put on it by the people advocating abstinence that it can be built into something more than it is. Sex is fun and enjoyable part of life but not the most important thing in a relationship. I worry that there will be a lot of disappointed people who wait until marriage to find out what sex is really like and end up marrying in haste.

I am not religious but do have my own moral code as others have said and I do object to the pressure on some youngsters to commit to no sex before marriage. More importance should be placed on forming good relationships and having safe sex in a commited partnership whether you are married or not.

'what exactly does 'fornication' refer to in the Bible? Is it specifically including sex before marriage? Or is that our interpretation of the word?'

Fornication in its basic terms is voluntary sexual intercourse between a man and woman who are not married to each other. other types of fornication include Adultery

The greek word pornei'a refers to sexual intercourse between unmarried persons and extra marital affairs

1 Cor. 7:2-5 states that immorality/fornication is prevalant so marriage is best to combat this...if sexual relations outside of the marriage bond was acceptable why marry?..why advise to marry?

lavenerbongo - the celibacy (purity, abstinence) rings thing is an interesting phenomenon. My understanding from the USA is that what tends to happen is that sexual actiity between young unmarried people does not decline overall it just changes. There is some decline in penetrative sexual activity but a rise in 'non penetative' activity and certainly not complete celibacy and a definite rise in accidental teenage preganancy.

I think you are right - the abstinence purity movement just makes sex seem such a big deal that young people get an unbalanced view of what a relationship is about. Also what is forbidden becomes endlessly enticing but without contraceptive advice and adult emotional support the outcomes and consequences are much worse. I also suspect as you do that people rush into marriage more quickly so thay cn have 'safe' sex.

In essence it is probably a return to the conditions that existed in the 1950s in the UK. Not a good thing overall.