Have we had a thread about the Richard Dawkins atheist summer camps for kids yet?

[policywonk]

here

Though #1: Dawkins is a loon.

Thought #2 (following very closely on the heels of Thought #1): DS1 (6) - who is alone (in his class of 30) in having been taught about the Big Bang rather than the creation story - might well get a lot out of something like this. At the moment, he's beginning to suspect that his father and I are cult leaders.

Yes that seems to me to be the big problem with it.

Another might be the question of how far humanism itself is compatible with scientific thought. For example, science surely tells us that we, like all other animals, act entirely according to the programming of our genes, and according to the way in which these interact with our environment. Yet central to humanism is the idea that people, unlike other animals, have the capacity for "good". The whole idea of goodness has no place in science, and if we believe that science gives a complete account of ourselves, "goodness" is surely illusory - a side effect of our desire to protect ourselves and those that share most of our genes. It seems then illogical to accept a belief in goodness, while condemning religious belief as irrational and unscientific.

(that was to govk)

Well that would be the most straightforward explanation

UQD, philosophy is indeed taught in schools www.sapere.org.uk
(but not enough)

I despise summer camps that have the ulterior motive of forcing beliefs onto children. That's the job of us parents!

Seriously, as a catholic I would never, ever send my kids to a summer camp run by catholics. I don't even send them to a catholic school. I'm with the French on this one, religion should be taught at home, education at school.

Of course I teach my kids about every religion and I include athiests, they know that some people don't believe in God, they have plenty of friends who don't either. Hopefully when they get older, I'll have given them a good all-round knowledge of religions and culture and they can make their own minds up as to whether to carry on following Catholicism, or another religion, or even none. It's entirely their choice.

Dawkins is simply doing what the religious are criticised of doing, indoctrination. Perhaps that is his point, if the religious folk get up in arms about it, then he can make a point about hypocrisy. But he is using children to get his point across, which is petty and crass.

I also like Dittany's post!

From their website-
Camp Quest?s aim is to get campers thinking and asking themselves questions, while equiping them with the tools to go off and come to their own conclusions about a wide range of topics.
There is no ?atheist dogma? or agenda, but an atmosphere of inquiry is created and the campers are encouraged to discuss ideas of interest to them.
sounds OK, not indoctrination

Yup, that's pretty much what the Christian ones would say too. They'll deny indoctriniation at any costs.

Can't there be children's camps without religion or definitely no religion? You know the ones where they have fun and learn how to burn sausages?

I send my dcs to a Catholic school, one of the reasons is because there is NO religion at home. I'm an atheist and my DH doesn't really know... (yes it annoys me too). I feel that faith is something that is found in the child within and therefore by allowing my children to experience belief they could 'find' God if they wish when they're older, therefore having more choice than me.

Interesting way to look at it Posie!

Yes there certainly are summer camps that have no agenda whatsoever, other than to make sure the children have fun. So why there is a need for 'athiest' ones I don't know.

What would be the point of them if you aren't going to be 'guiding' them to your pov?

I see now that it started in the US, which makes sense. We just don't go in for this sort of thing here. The idea of atheists sitting round the campfire with guitars singing songs about their beliefs is every bit as cringe-making as the idea of Christians doing it. Mark my words - "you dress like an atheist" will soon become the insult of choice if this sort of thing takes off.

well, they wouldn't call it indoctrination they'd call it 'growing in faith' or something and they deffo wouldn't be talking about 'coming to their own conclusions' or an atmosphere of enquiry.
YHA have excellent summercamps, btw

"There will also be a £10 prize for the child who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn."

Isn't that, like a double negative? If the unicorn is mythical it doesn't exist anyway, so how can you disprove it does exist?

(Am imagining all the kids at the camp under false pretenses -

"When do we get to see the Unicorn, Mr Dawkins?"

"Shut up kids, and keep singing - 'Oh you'll never get to heaven....')

"Camp Quest?s aim is to get campers thinking and asking themselves questions (do you really want to look like a Christian?), while equiping them with the tools (a signed copy of The God Delusion and a plastic monkey useful for bashing the Bible Bashers!) to go off and come to their own conclusions about a wide range of topics (The Genius of Richard Dawkins, 1001 Insults for Believers, How to Dress like Richard Dawkins).
There is no ?atheist dogma? or agenda (not that we'll admit to!), but an atmosphere of inquiry is created (aren't Christians thick?) and the campers are encouraged to discuss ideas of interest to them (Should Mr Dawkins be President?)."

I think he's just giving them some cash, that's all- and they made the mistake of thinking it would add some credibility, whereas in fact he pisses off even hardened humanists like me!

He's certainly a Dick

'The Amazing Adventures of Dick Dawkins'!

Or Dorkins

I see the quality of anti-Dawkins debate on here is of a high level again!

I'm not comfortable with this "camp" as reported, but I doubt it has been reported 100% accurately. I'd have to see it before deciding. For me it seems like a crash course in The Bleeding Obvious, but sadly many of our kids need this thanks to their indoctrination with the polar opposite.

UQD, I don't think many kids are indoctrinated into religion these days. Most CofE schools don't incorporate religion into lessons and where they do, it's a choice, children can opt out if they want to.

I don't see the necessity of these camps when there are plenty of non-religious summer camps anyway.

Children should know about religion as it's cultural, I don't agree with shielding them from all religion as though it's a huge child-eating monster!

I don't either, and neither does Professor Dawkins from what I recall. But I'd prefer people to teach it as "this is stuff some people believe(d)", and for Christian mythology to be taught in exactly the same way as Greek and Egyptian mythology. It's not.

UQD, that's because, unlike Greek and Roman mythology, people still believe in Christianity. To them (and me) it's not a myth. However you could teach it as a cultural thing. But what children should be taught, is respect, for everyone everywhere no matter what they believe or disbelieve.

But to the Greeks and Romans their gods were very real too.

Atheism = faith + thought + time