Ok, step away now if offended by such topics - Masturbation, Porn and Christianity

[ChocIceCone]

Ok, have name changed for this post, for obvious reasons!

This subject has been bothering me for some time, ever since I read a Christian book about the subjects surrounding sex before marriage, sexuality, affairs, flirting, etc, and what the 'boundaries' were, so to speak, in terms of what is right or wrong, in the view of God / Christianity.

One of the subjects covered was masturbation, and if it's ok or not. The author said not (her reasoning being that if we masturbate, we aren't likely to be thinking 'pure' thoughts while doing it, and various others). She applied the same ideas for both men and women.
Now, I'm unclear as to whether this should be believed / worried about, as the author herself said that it doesn't specifically state in the Bible that masturbation isn't allowed, however that the thoughts we have when doing it aren't pure, and probably not pleasing to God.

Same goes for porn - I don't watch films or look at pictures (obviously the Church doesn't advocate the use of these!) - but I do occasionally read erotic literature and written stories - is that just as bad??

I've been brought up to believe that masturbation is healthy, normal and perfectly ok, but I've been trying to learn more about God, Jesus, etc, and would now consider myself a Christian. Is doing the above setting me outside of being a 'proper' Christian?

I would really like to hear the views of other Christians...
Thanks.

I think if you are wanking off around the clock at the expense of your real relationship then masturbation is a bad thing. If a person becomes too self sufficient then they ultimately may lose the intimacy of their marriage. Its about balance I suppose.

As for porn, with real people there is the obvious exploitation problems that you don't need to be a Christian to have a problem with. I think another problem with porn is the trivialisation of sexuality and the separation of the body from emotions. It can also provide an unrealistic image of a normal sex life and gives rise to the idea that the way to be happy is to have sex, and lots of it, with anyone whether you love them or not. In many ways , porn normalises the idea that sex is the be all and end all of sexuality. You could argue that ordinary romance novels and tv programmes give unrealistic expectations of healthy adult relationships too.

She's not using porn, though, she's using (made up) erotica - written stories.

Some of this type of material was discussed in the family's final(?) daughter/mother talk when the "victim" was 18 . Part of the wonder and thrill of becoming and being a woman in my opinion.

Christians are against masturbation on the grounds that every act of sex should be open to the creation of new life.

Masturbation is called the sin of Onan. In the Old Testament, Onan was the second son of Judah, he spilled his seed on the ground rather than impregnate his brothers widow, as holy law decreed. Thus displeasing God who killed him. Genesis 38, 4-10.

Basicaly sex is seen as being for procreation and should be within marriage so the patriarchal system can be continued because the man will know who his offspring are.

Ah, but Onan was a man, the OP is a woman - no spilling of seed.

Was there not some interpretation of the Onan story that when he spilt his seed upon the ground it was through withdrawal, rather than masturbation?

All acts of sex are for procreation, masturbation obviously isn't. Onan spilled his seed on the ground but any act of wasting seed is seen to be wrong. As for women masturbating, touching, licentious thoughts, are seen as being sinfull and not at all like Mary who is held up as the paragon of womanly virtue.

Are acts of sex not also about pair-bonding? Does God not like women having sex after the menopause? Should infertile couples just pack it all in?

Why would God give you - nay, design you - a clitoris, and then not expect you to use it, especially given that it's not needed to conceive?

And surely you mean "Some Christians" in your post of Sat 20-Jun-09 23:26:33?

Hey I'm pagan we dance naked and no problems with mastubation, sex or otherwise. I'm just giving the theolgical perspective on why traditionally masturbation is seen as being wrong.

Obviously some educated, evolved and liberal Christians will have different views on the subject matter.

Ah, sorry, you were sounding a bit fundy there - and I wasn't quite sure how to take the name!

It's my personal view that the reason for a ban on non-procreative sex was that it was an unnecessary expenditure of energy, in a time and civilisation which was always borderline for survival. There are/were similar bans in the US as it developed - oral sex and buggery were illegal in many states and probably still are in some. [too late at night to go googling emoticon]

However, expending a few calories in a screaming orgasm isn't likely to affect the OP's chances of survival, so I reckon she should go ahead.

I think faeriefruitcake was wrong when she stated "All acts of sex are for procreation, masturbation obviously isn't."

I have yet to be told that sex between a husband and his post-menopausal wife is not acceptable in the eyes of God. Yet this would be the case if "All acts of sex are for procreation ..." were to be seen as a blanket prohibition on other types of sex between husband and wife. The same thing applies when the wife is pregnant, is sex not allowed?

I suspect that this is one of the many examples when God expected us to use our common sense. Basically God was saying "This, boys and girls is the general principle, but I expect you to judge each individual cases on its merits. I gave you a brain and a conscience for this very purpose"

All acts of sex are not for proceation - the use of contraception (within a committed marriage relationship) is perfectly acceptable to many Christians. What would be wrong is ruling out the possibility of children entirely ever. But recreational sex (within marriage) is fine and encouraged. Sexual intimacy = a good thing.

Personally I have more issues with the boundary of what's considered 'sex' and what's allowed before marriage but that's possibly a whole different thread!

When the Bible was written they had very little concept of post menopausal women in fact several cases of women in later years having babies. Elizabeth being one of them.

Jewish Holy Law is different to Christian perspectives on the point of sex. In Judaism it is a mans religious duty to sexually satisfy his wife. (At least that's what the Rabbi I studied with told me) And as far as I know Judaism doesn't have the same ideas about masturbation and impure thoughts that some Christians do, Origianl sin etc.

What an interesting thread. FWIW and I'm ashamed to say this isn't backed up by scriptural scholarship, I agree with Extended's common sense argument. As others have said, if masturbation is alienating you from your husband/wife and causing you to be consumed with lust from morn 'til night then clearly it's not what God intended for you.

However, if it's part of an intimate relationship with said DH/W then I think it cna be a very positive thing - particularly during times e.g. pregnancy - when you might not feel particularly up for hours of penetrative sex. Same goes for a bit of harmless erotica I'd have thought - if it helps to enhance your intimacy with your DH then I don't see it as a problem. Porn I have issues with for other reasons, as admirably set out by oodles.

My own view is that God doesn't want us to do things that will ultimately damage us or others so these things need to be judged on a case by case basis with that in mind.