Need clarification in regards to Allah/God

[Martha200]

Ok, am I right in thinking that when Muslims mention Allah, this is the same God that Christians talk about, but what they both believe about God/Allah is very different, or is it offensive and actually Allah should be thought of as Allah and not God..
if that makes sense?

The reason why I ask is ds (6) asked me a question the other day, and I asked him what he thought. He is learning about Islam in RE, and I know the school would deliver this is a professional manner as they would do with the rest of the curriculum, but his answer made me and I can't have him thinking what he said. I'm not even sure what gave him the idea of what he said, but it made me think I really need to be up to scratch on my basics of the major beliefs in religion.

Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in one God, and all have a shared background in what I'd call the Old Testament - they all trace themselves back to Abraham and the God that he believed in. So, in that sense they all believe in the same God.

But all three religions have gone their own directions since then, so their views about God have all changed.

I'm not sure whether Muslims would mind people using the word "God" for Allah, although I think as far as tey are concerned, Allah is God IYSWIM?

Message withdrawn

The God of Islam, Judaism and Christianity is the same God. The had an interfaith dialogue about it.

Jews believe they are the decendants of Issac, Muslims of Abraham's eldest son Ishmael. Christians the followers of Jesus who was a Jew.

All believe in the sending of prophets to tell humans God's will. Muslims believe that the message has been corrupted over time and translation. Muhammad (pbuh) was the final prophet sent by Allah and the Qu'ran is the word of Allah.

Jews and Christians are often referred to as 'people of the book'

What did he say that was so bad? It can't be malicious anyway at that age so I doubt anyone would be offended if he repeated it.

I am a christian arab and all my family use the word allah for God when speaking in Arabic.

Bloss is right about the pagans calling one of their gods allah, and that's how language evolves.

However, some muslims (not Arab muslims) have disagreed with me and said Allah is only their God!

The reason for the confusion is because Arabic is the language of the Koran and so people think only used by Muslims.

Muslims generally use the word Allah when referign to God, but will also use the persian word, 'Khuda' which means 'God' . the words are all interchangeable.

however, you may find some uneducated people (in the sense that they are unedcated about their religion) go up in arms over this, taking offence left right and center. etc.

jews, christians and muslims all believe in the same god. difference is jews believe that he ended his message with him. Christians believe that jesus is the son of god, whilst muslims believe that jesus is a prophet of God, and mohammed is the last of a long line of messengers sent by God with Moses, Abraham et al all being messengers.

what did your son say that was so horrendous to you?

Thanks, as it has been asked, the conversation in the car (of all places when I am trying to focus on rush hour!) he asked: "who created the world? God or Allah?"
Me: "who do you think did?"
Him: "God did"
Me: " Many people believe God and Allah are the same"
Him, butting in: 'No they are not. Christians think of Mary and Jesus Christ:
Me: "True they do, but what makes you say God and not Allah?"
Him " because God is cleverer"
Me "I don't think that's quite right"
then baby wakes up and the conversation changes.

I'm really surprised, because I know his school will be covering this properly as they do with all subjects, but I am that somewhere he got the idea that one is cleverer than another going on and I think he is just curious, but even today he boomed across the shopping mall, "a muslim told me today that they can't go to Mcdonalds or eat bacon, I am not muslim because I love bacon"
I immediately quietly step in to him with a correction, reminding him of our muslim friends (we used to live overseas and he vaguely remembers them) who always go to mcdonalds because there the bacon is turkey/halal so actually they can. He then suggests he could tell the girl in his class she could go to where we used to live for a mcdonalds!!

I just want to raise him to be respectful of other people's beliefs so I was just taken a back hearing him say what he did. It's all innocent but in some parts of town where we live I'm not convinced it would be viewed that way, that's all.

Martha It could just be that he sees God as his and Allah as someone other kids version. Many children at this age usually insist that their version of whatever, be that toy, friend, story is better because it is theirs.
Honestly people usually take the shocking things kids say well as they understand they don't fully appreciate what they are saying and won't judge you.
One little girl I nannied didn't believe my ex boyfriend was Asian because she didn't think races were allowed to mix, she certainly wasn't brought up to believe that. It was just in her limited experience she had never seen an asian man and a white woman together.

TBH I think a 6yo's view of the world is still too "Right or Wrong, True or False" to have much subtlety about different faiths and the similarities and differences between them, and I don't think that anyone would be upset or shocked at his comments - they'd probably just be happy that schools are covering this sort of thing and encouraging children to think about it and realise that other people may believe different things from them.

We've actually had some long discussions on here about whether different faiths believe in the same God or different Gods, whether they believe in Gods which don't actually exist, or just have a different view of the same God. And that's amongst adults who have quite a lot of experience of their religions and have thought about it a lot, and we still haven't reached an agreed conclusion!

So I don't think it's surprising if either he or you are not sure quite where you stand on this subject. All you can do is clarify things when he seems to be getting the wrong end of the stick - like you did about McDonalds - and encourage him to be accepting of people's differences.

Thanks Mnetters

Like you've said he is 6,and their views are very much developing etc, I don't want him to grow up to be ignorant, which is why I thought I'd better check my facts on terminology, it's been awhile since I did RE and had to retain information

well, i think you are doing a good job, and just keep at it.

i had some questions on th elines of how can christians believe in one god, when they have the trinity. (i'm a muslim) so i used the description i had found in a book about three water droplets, becoming one. i dont know how good or bad a descriptor it is, but my dc was happy with it and content to believe that christians also believed in only one god.

I am Muslim and I am teaching my children that Allah and God are the same just that Muslims and Christians have different names for Him.

The Qu'ran does not say that they are the same God.

There are lots of reasons that I wouldn't tell my child all mono-theistic religions worship the same God, but as you only mention islam and christianity, here are some of the differences (there are hundreds, but I'll try to keep it to the main points!):

Islam: God is unknowable and can change his mind vs Christianity: God is the same yesterday, today and forever and wants an intimate relationship with his people
Islam: God is not three in one vs Christianity: God is a trinity of father, son and spirit
Islam: Jesus Christ is only a slave vs Christianity: Jesus Christ is almighty God in human form
Islam: Jesus Christ is not Lord vs Christianity: Jesus is Lord
Islam: God has no son vs Christianity: God sacrificed his only son
Islam: God ordains Jihad (fight your enemies) vs Christianity: God says love your enemies and pray for them

There are literally thousands of differences, which I won't bore you with, but these are the most basic ones. I think it is insulting to both muslims and christians to claim that there is not difference between their gods.

Gracie Muslims believe that Jesus is a Prophet/Messenger sent by God and that he will return. We do not believe that he is a slave,

Gracie _ I'm not sure where you got your knowledge of Islam from but it is not correct.

Muslims believe that Allah or God (we use both terms) and infinite being, God has no end or begining and he does not change his mind.

We also believe that He is closer to us then our own jugular vein (to paraphrase the Qur'an). It is affirmed by the Prophetic sayings that He loves us more then a mother loves her child. Plus one of the 99 names of God is Al Wadud which translates as the most loving.

To echo Moffat, we believe Jesus (peace be upon him) to be a noble Prophet and Messenger, which is the highest state a human can have.

As for your Jihad comments . Aside from the fact the Bible is littered with war stories and there is the Christian concept of a Just War, Jihad means struggle.

The greatest and most important jihad for Muslims is the struggle to be a better person. The other type is only to be carried out to defend yourself.

Finally, the Quran clearly states that Our God is also the God of the Christians and the Jews, Islam is seen as a continuation of those two religions:

"On this day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion."

Qur'an 5.3

"And when the son of Mary is quoted as an example, behold! The folk laugh out, and say: Are our gods better, or is he? They raise not the objection save for argument. Nay! but they are a contentious folk. He is nothing but a slave on whom we bestowed favor, and we made him a pattern for the Children of Israel. And had we willed it we would have set among you angels to be viceroys in the earth". Quran [043.057-060]

Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,- Quran [004.095]

O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things. Quran [005.054]

Or think ye that ye shall be abandoned, as though Allah did not know those among you who strive with might and main, and take none for friends and protectors except Allah, His Messenger, and the (community of) Believers? But Allah is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do. Quran [009.016]

O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love, even though they have rejected the Truth that has come to you, and have (on the contrary) driven out the Prophet and yourselves (from your homes), (simply) because ye believe in Allah your Lord! Quran [060.001]

When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies. Quran [004.101]

Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them). Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly. Quran [008.059-060]

Yes, there are wars in the old testament (please remember that Israel is Israel and not the church) and the concept of a 'holy war' is not biblical. It's just that some church leaders came up with it way later. I wouldn't count it as christian doctrine.

The God of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171):

"Believe in Allah and say not 'Trinity.' Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son."

Allah is capricious (Sura 2:284), whereas the christian God is trustworthy. And Allah is never anywhere presented as a god of love ? which is the essence of the nature of the christian God (1 John 4:7-16).

All I'm saying is that it's naive to teach children that all mono-theistic religions worship the same god and not expect them to get into fights about it. If it's what you believe, that's fine, but every religion will have it's fundamentalists teaching their kids otherwise and there is going to be fights about it.

Personally, I would recommend that if you child was taught they are different, (unless it personally bothers you) go with it.

Gracie - I am so saddened you've stooped to cutting and pasting to try and insult Islam. I'm sure I can even guess which website you've picked them from.

Are you trying to tell Muslims that we don't know our own religion?

Surah 2:284 Does not state that Allah is capricious. It actually says:

"To God belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and whether you disclose what is in your hearts or conceal it, God will call you to account for it. Then He forgives whom He wills and punishes whom He wills. And God is able to do all things."

God's will does not equal capriciousness.

As I mentioned before, one of the Islamic names of God is the most loving, hence the Islamic concept of God is that of a loving, merciful God.

As regards to Jesus (peace be upon him), you are misinterpreting the meaning of the term slave in that context. Islam means peace via submission to God, so to be a devoted slave to God, is a wonderful thing and not at all a lowly station.

It's fine that you think Christianity is special and wonderful, but you shouldn't need to disparage another religion to make that point.

I'm sorry, I did not mean to disparage any religion, only to prove that they are different. I may have got the wrong verse there, and can't quite find the one a mean, but equally Surah 2: 106 says 'If We supersede any verse or cause it to be forgotten, We bring a better one or one similar. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things!' which indicates that he does change and allows changes to scripture. Christianity states that their god will never change his mind.

I don't deny that in Islam Jesus was a slave to Allah, and that you may consider being a slave a good thing; but christianity says he was a slave to no-one - he was and is God.

I'm not suggesting that Islam is 'bad' or 'wrong', but it is not the same as christianity or any other mono-theistic religion. My point is that we should all be able to recognise our differences and have freedom to worship different gods, without pretending that they are all the same.

Agreed. There are different types of christianity, just like there are different types of Islam, and just like there are different types of mono-theistic religion. That's my point. They are not all the same. Just because they both claim to know how the world started does not make either of them evolutionists.