Christians, how do you explain homosexuality to your children?

[fartmeistergeneral]

I presume you think it is 'wrong'? What is it in the Bible? 'God hates that'? (may have got that quote wrong!). Am just interested in how you explain to your children that some people are gay without engendering hate and mistrust?

Am not a christian by the way but was just interested cos my friend is, and by implication so are her children. I overheard one telling my ds1 that John Barrowman is bad, just wondered if he meant Captain Jack is bad or John Barrowman is bad cos of being gay!!!! It just got me thinking.

seeker;..no, i've never asked, the thing is....i agree with it.

don't shout at me.

I'm not shouting.

Why do you agree with it?

LadyJuliaFish - that is a really thoughtful and reasoned post, I must admit that I really do not know very much about Catholicism and would have always assumed that most if not all catholics would be anti-gay, I am very glad that it is not the case, so thank you for posting that.

My mum is friends with some very hard-line evangelical Christians (and also muslims, whilst we are at it) who are opposed to homosexuality, and are also anti-abortion, anti-Harry Potter, believe creationism should be taught in schools as scientific fact etc, they have kind of affected my and my brother's view on Christianity.

seeker...it's just not right....there's something about homosexuals that scares me...does that make any sense?

Scares you? No that doesn't make any sense I'm afraid. Can you expand?

feel like i picking on you this week daftpunk.. but anyway, you are being really quite challenging and controversial..

you say

daftpunk on Thu 23-Apr-09 11:11:34
i don't want sex with bits of plastic.

re; gay couples bringing up children...it would be very confusing for the child don't you think?...how would that child grow up with a balanced view of sexuality?

you will not discuss sex/sexuality or homosexuality or anything outside of a married hetero relationship with your children, despite 3 of them being teens.. do you presume they are all hetero and virgins?

how will they grow up with a balanced view of sexuality , in a household with no shades of grey re what is normal and where homosexuality is 'scary'

Why do you think it's not right daftpunk? It's perfectly natural and occurs throughout the animal kingdom. Is it because it's not what you would want to do?

I don't fancy men with beards. That doesn't mean I think my bearded friends (male and female ) are peverse or sinful.

daftpunk - scares you? Elaborate, please.

I don't even know where to begin on your other comments. I am totally at the moment.

Also, daftpunk - what will you do if one of your children is gay?

Ladyjuliafish, you said:

Lots of old testement laws are a nonsense eg not wearing 2 types of cloth, taking slaves from neighbouring countries, stoning people who don't observe sabbath etc.

Out of genuine interest, who decided and when that these laws were a bit old fashioned and it didn't matter if you adhered to them or not? I mean, I guess at some point this was the law - when did it change and who decides that some of the bible can be ignored as old fashioned and some of it is still relevant?

Also very interested that someone on here said that Christians generally don't think homosexuality is wrong. Didn't the bible say 'God hates that' (one of the few bits I can remember - along with 'Jesus wept' )

Anyway as I said am not a Christian, not bothered if you're gay, straight or bi - just that I did attend church for years and got a lot of info thrown at me. Was sure the churches I've attended were quite anti-gay tho.

Don't be too hard on daftpunk. The Catholic church drums it all into you and turns the screw.

I am a Catholic but will be teaching my child that homosexuality is normal.
Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuality in the New Testament afaik.
I am sure there are theological justifications for anti-homosexuality, but to me there are more important issues for the church to deal with, like poverty and justice.

But did it say God hates that in the OT? Sorry to harp on, I may well have made that up over the years!!!!!

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I thought so!

So how do Christians work round this then?

The OT has lots of laws which were overturned by the early church. Right at the start, Christians were a small group of Jews and continued to follow the Jewish laws (I can't swear to whether Jewish people at that time followed exactly what the OT says, or were more or less strict about parts of it). But very soon the Christians decided to allow non-Jews to join, and that keeping the Jewish laws was not necessary for the newcomers (or for anyone, though some with a Jewish background probably continued to do things the way they always had), and they stopped being part of Judaism. (This is the bit in Acts where St Peter has a vision of a sheet being raised and lowered with all kind sof clean and unclean animals on it).

So, from very early in the Christian church, we have not had to abstain from prawn cocktail, poly-cotton shirts, or cheeseburgers, all of which are forbidden by the OT law (and 2 of which are still forbidden to strict Jews).

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Crikey there is some real lunacy on this thread and you do wonder why there are so many confused, horrible adults in the world when so many children are fed such utter tripe about something as basically human as sex.

I for one am going to bring my children up to accept and embrace their sexuality - whatever it is.

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I do . By deciding that the NT passages are referring to homosexual acts which are not between a loving couple, but a power-based relationship. Or that, because the Bible was written by humans who are influenced not just by their relationship with God but also their culture, statements in the Bible should not be automatically assumed to be relevant in all places, times, cultures, etc. And that as our understanding of science, psychology etc has developed over time, we can now recognise that sexual orientation is innate and that therefore homosexuality is not a deliberate choice for sexual gratification, but a fundamental part of who that person is. And that therefore we should apply the underlying message which Jesus taught - of love, tolerance and social justice - rather than seek specific instructions about what Jesus would have said about homosexuality if he had ever mentioned the subject.

x-posts there bloss.

I'd agree about why OT laws were overturned, and the 10 commandments only summarised.

But I'd say that the rules about men sleeping with men can be grouped with rules about clean and unclean animals, women not being clean during menstruation, and the need for keeping things separate, like meals not containing both meat and milk. It was part of a whole mind-set about there being one "right" way of doing things, and everything else being wrong. About things being divided up into clean and unclean. And that whole category was overturned by Jesus.

Excellent quote from Jeb Bartlett of West Wing fame about reading the Bible literally:

BARTLET: You?re Dr. Jenna Jacobs, right?

JACOBS (obviously pleased to be recognized): Yes, sir!

BARTLET: It?s good to have you here.

JACOBS: Thank you!

BARTLET: ? the awesome impact of the airwaves, and how that translates into the furthering of our national discussions, but obviously also how it can ? how it can ? Forgive me, Dr. Jacobs. Are you an M.D.?

JACOBS: A Ph.D.

BARTLET: A Ph.D.

JACOBS: Yes, sir.

BARTLET: In psychology?

JACOBS: No, sir.

BARTLET: Theology?

JACOBS: No.

BARTLET: Social work?

JACOBS: I have a Ph.D. in English Literature.

BARTLET: I?m asking ?cause on your show people call in for advice ? and you go by the name Dr. Jacobs on your show ? and I didn?t know if maybe your listeners were confused by that and assumed you had advanced training in psychology, theology or health care.

JACOBS: I don?t believe they are confused, no, sir.

BARTLET: I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an ?abomination!?

JACOBS: I don?t say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

BARTLET: Yes it does. Leviticus!

JACOBS: 18:22.

BARTLET: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I wanted to sell my youngest daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She?s a Georgetown Sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?

(Bartlet only waits a second for a response, then plunges on.)

BARTLET: While thinking about that, can I ask another? My chief of staff, Leo McGary, insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? Or is it okay to call the police?

(Bartlet barely pauses to take a breath.)

BARTLET: Here?s one that?s really important, because we?ve got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?

Well, the OT discussion is interesting as far as it goes, but, like with the vexed question of women in authority - the passages to deal with are in the New Testament, not the old.

Hiya Kay, could you give chapter and verse on the tricky bits, and I'll happily tell you what a wishy-washy liberal does with them

that's a fantastic West Wing quote

getorfmoiland- thank you so much for your post, it brought tears to my eyes.

I think your Mum must have been very special and I agree that it is so important to be open and honest with children and that often didnt happen in the 80s.

In Devon too- wow! We are in Hackney, so hardly an oddity. I just worry sometimes as children can be cruel, but am heartened by your resilience.

Yes we have a little boy and we are a very happy family. Grandparents are supportive as well, which is lovely. I am pregnant too!

Thanks again.