Christians, how do you explain homosexuality to your children?

[fartmeistergeneral]

I presume you think it is 'wrong'? What is it in the Bible? 'God hates that'? (may have got that quote wrong!). Am just interested in how you explain to your children that some people are gay without engendering hate and mistrust?

Am not a christian by the way but was just interested cos my friend is, and by implication so are her children. I overheard one telling my ds1 that John Barrowman is bad, just wondered if he meant Captain Jack is bad or John Barrowman is bad cos of being gay!!!! It just got me thinking.

Oh dear. I'd educate about the options, but I fear this is a wildly inappropriate place for it. Golly.

Actually daftpunk, are you sure you're not my mother?

kayharker; not sure if you're gay ?? but you must believe that where children are concerned the only/best place for bringing them up is in a home with a married man and woman...i really don't care what adults do in the privacy of their bedroom....but there has to be a limit.

I explain it by saying that most people are attracted to people of the opposite sex but some people are attracted to people of the same sex. As a Christian the fundamental thing Jesus taught was LOVE and treating people right. Jesus sat with the social outcasts and pariahs of his day and he didn't sit there saying "actually, you're a sinner...so are you...that one over there is going straight to hell...". No - he showed love and compassion to them as human beings. Sexuality is just one part of who people are and that is what I teach my kids.

"i'm talking about lesbians..(as i'm a woman)....that must get very boring don't you think?...at least with a man you have more options."

Someone, somewhere PLEASE stop me from replying to this.........!!!!!

daftpunk, I'm going to ignore the 'boring' part - except to say that in my experience hetero sex can certainly get boring if you're with the wrong person...

"because......if we were all homosexuals the world would come to an end pretty quickly wouldn't it. "

Actually no, if we were all gay and chose not to reproduce then the human race may die out but that would probably leave the world in a much better state, given what we're doing to it.

And nobody is suggesting that "everyone" should become gay, are they? Do you have problems with straight couples who choose not to have children?

"you must believe that where children are concerned the only/best place for bringing them up is in a home with a married man and woman" Why must we believe that?

I think the ideal is for children to be brought up within loving, supportive families. In some cases that may be a married couple, but it could equally be an unmarried male/female couple who have a longterm committment, or a gay couple, or a single parent with support from family and close friends.

As to sex... well, I haven't tried sex with a woman, so I won't claim to be an expert, but I think it's well enough known that many (most?) women enjoy foreplay and non-penetrative sex more than the penetrative act alone, so I don't see any reason why the lack of a penis in the equation would reduce sexual enjoyment. And if it did, well there are plenty of shops where you can buy substitutes.

i don't want sex with bits of plastic.

re; gay couples bringing up children...it would be very confusing for the child don't you think?...how would that child grow up with a balanced view of sexuality?

Well, how does anyone? You see the examples from your own family and their friends, you see tv shows and read books, all of which show a range of family situations. I'm sure that gay couples bringing up children will give them honest answers when they ask "Why does X have a mummy and a daddy, when I have 2 mummies?" in the same way that I would hope straight couples and single parents answer questions from their children about other family set-ups. After all, once children start nursery or school they will meet a wide variety of different setups. Some children with 1 parent, some 2, some 4, ones living with an aunt, or grandparents, or who were adopted.

Tha family setup is less important than the lessons children learn about good (or bad) relationships from what they see at home. Two parents who love, respect, and support each other. Who have their differences but get along fine anyway. That's where children learn what a good relationship looks like, or sadly that relationships are a mess, that men and women don't respect each other, that you can't trust people. Being in a good relationship, or having the self-respect to get out of a bad one, will teach children what is important about relationships.

They'll learn about sex in their own time, and feel attracted to one or other (or both) when they get to that age, whatever the sexuality of their parents.

Most gay people grow up with straight parents, straight people are equally capable of growing up with gay parents.

My twopenn'orth.

My mum is gay and a christian. She is evidently a member oof a very liberal church (I ignorantly do not know what denomination it is, evangelical I believe). My brother and I have always known, my mum came out when I was 5 but as far as I am concerened I always remember her as gay. She had a relationship with a woman for about 10 years, in which they both had my brother (conceived by donor insemination from a friend). Unfortunately my mum and her partner split up about 15 years ago, however we all still see each other a lot, and she has been instrumental in raising my brother, far more so than loads of absent fathers I could mention.

As far as I can see it being raised by 2 lesbians (incidentally my mum hates the word lesbian for some reason, prefers to be called gay) is no better or no worse than being raised by a traditional family. I think that they were both bloody brave to come out and raise a children in 80's small-town Devon. Friends of me and my brother have mostly always accepted the situation, have had some comments from ignorant people but to be honest, when you are growing up you get cruel comments about loads of things, e.g . if my mum had been fat or we had a skoda or something. It's no different.

I find it very difficult indeed to hear "Christian" views that homosexuality is somehow a sin to be equated with lying, thieving and murder. And linked with the seven deadly sins - e.g. envy. How does that work? Me and my bro are atheists, despite our mum being a committed Christian. We doo not understand how she can be a Christian when the rigid interpretation of her faith is that to be gay is sinful. She personally does not consider that being gay is a sin (of course not) but strangely enough she has a very close (Christian) friend who does believe that gayness is wrong in the extreme. I don't know how my mum can be friends with her - I really don't understand that (mum just says that she loves her friend and they don't discuss sexuality as they know their opinions differ). Strange. I think that that would be like me being friends with a black woman and also being a member of the national front.

Long post - sorry, this thread is very interesting.

DaftPunk - at no point were my brother and i ever confused about our sexuality. We are both heterosexual and in long-term relationships. I think it telling that my brother have grown up in a household where both homosexuality and Christianity were openly discussed - and as adults we are very supportive of the choice (if it is a choice) to be gay, but rigidly atheistic.

sounds like you had a brilliant life ....i have very set ideas about life unfortunately..you know, what's right..what's wrong....i wont ever change..

i think my days are numbered on mumsnet..my veiws seem to annoy people, (apart from on this thread)...if i'd said this in chat or aibu..i'd be dead now....i like it here, you are accepting.

Every homosexual person I know had hetrosexual parents. It's no less confusing for them growing up in a hetrosexual household than for children growing up in a homosexual household. Incidentally the two best behaved, most generous and thughtful children I have ever met grew up with two mothers. It did them no harm at all, even if they both turned out to fancy the other gender.

You seem to have some very old fashioned ideas daftpunk, based on misinformation and prejudice.

Why won't you change your mind? Surely if you're presented with evidence that proves you're wrong, it's not very sensible to stick to your point of view?

Am still struggling with the idea of homosexuals being envious of the opposite sex. Any of you lesbians on here care to explain that one?

daftpunk - if you like the fact that we are accepting of you, despite the fact that we have different views, then perhaps you could learn from that to be a bit more accepting of other people as well? It's important in life to look at what other people say and believe, and be prepared to consider changing your own views. I don't always agree with people, but I think the fact that they believe something, and have their own compelling reasons for believing it, makes it worth my while trying to understand their point of view. I don't always change, but the possibility is always there, particularly on subjects I don't have much knowledge or personal experience of, as I realise that my own opinion may just be because of how I was brought up and not something I've really thought that much about.

I presume the idea is that I am envious of men being able to kiss pretty ladies, perhaps? (Although actually, as I'm married, that's perfectly true) But I'm bisexual, so I suppose I could be called greedy.

I personally have no problem being friends with people who genuinely believe homosexuality is sinful or 'disordered' which I think is the Catholic phraseology atm.

I'm friends with people who believe that women shouldn't be in church leadership.

For me, as long as what they believe is based in what they genuinely think scripture teaches, I have no issue with it, it's a conscience thing. I have a friend who believes the traditional viewpoint, but she is still v. anti-discrimination and supports civil partnerships etc.

I might not agree, and I might think they've got it wrong, but I'm quite sure I've got some things wrong too, and am in no position to be pointy-fingered.

that's it kay...i'm catholic so i've been taught homosexuality is sinful.

and you're right about greed, homosexuals want to have sex with people they shouldn't be having sex with.

Message withdrawn

getorfmoiland -I am a lesbian mum and interested in your experience. I wonder what things will be like for my son at school etc.

Daftpunk- you always live up to your name! You sound very ignorant and blinkered about the world.

er..actually..it's you who's ignorant and blinkered....my religion says homosexuality is wrong...just like plenty of other religions..infact most of them.

daktpunk - have you ever asked why your religion says this?

Charliegal - I think the thingthat made it easy for my brother and me to go through school etc was the fact that mum and her partner were always very open and honest, no nonsense about them being 'friends' or whatever, they were very open about the fact they were girlfriend and girlfriend, and if they were allowed they would be married etc.

To be honest, I got slightly more hassle at school that my brother (he is 8 years younger) because by the time my brother was at school it was all old news anyway. Some teachers (old school types) were a bit cats bum face about it, I could tell as a child that they disapproved, but they never actually said anything. Not til I was older did mum tell me that some teachers were awful to her, said she was scarring me for life, she was disgusting and and as a church going christian how could my mum do such things. Like I said, mum was very brave coming out in 80's Devon!

Some friends at school were very much 'why don't you have a daddy, why do you have two mummies' etc, just innocent questions looking back. I just answered them honestly and without shame (well, I wasn't ashamed, it was all well and normal for me!!), some kids just took it at face value, some kids responded 'well my mummy think it's wrong'' etc. Which was hurtful, to be honest, butno more so than so-and-so saying that she didn't want to be friends with me anymore because I liked My Little Pony (cried for ages about that one lol!). But I told my mum and we all talked about it. It must have all been so much more hurtful for my mum and her partner than it was for me, really.

At teenage years there was a lot of 'oi, you mum's a LESBIAN' hurled across the playground. To which I responded 'yeah well your a mum's an ugly cow' - not the most mature behaviour from either of us. Used to get a lot of stupid questions like 'which one is the man' and 'does your mum use a strap one'. Usual response to those was f** off, frankly!

The one thing that caused ructions was that not all my mum's family were supportive of her being gay (mum's girlfriend's whole huge family were fine about it). My mum's mum was very against it all and tried very hard to convince me that mum was bad. Which was a conflict because I spent an awful lot of time with my gran (childcare mostly) and I was very close to her. It caused a lot of resentment between my mum and gran and they didn't speak for over 20 years (although I was still in contact with my gran) and wasn't resolved by my gran's death.

Charliegal - you have a little boy - I can honestly say that it has never ever been an issue with my brother having been raised by 2 gay women. He loves them both (calles them both mum), knows how he was concieved and is very, very proud of it (he also knows and is in contact with his father, although he has had no dealings with his upbringing). My brother absolutely has no issues with the way he was raised, and had little or no hassle at school about it - my mum was very worried about this as she thought the whole gay mum issue would be more problematic with a son. Not so. We have had our ups and downs (haven't we all!)) but we have a very happy family. I hope you and your partner have an equally lovely family

I'm Catholic and I have never been taught that homosexuality is wrong. My old diocese had a pastoral outreach programme for Catholic homosexuals and their families with bi-monthly masses. It was not something that was discussed at home. This is not due to any deep religious conviction on the part of my parents (father very lapsed, mother atheist) but just because we didn't talk about sex much at all. I think thats fairly normal in my generation.

I am suprised that you assume that all or even most Christians think that homosexuality is wrong. My dcs attend Catholic school and as a result most of my friends locally are Catholic. I don't know anyone from church or school except our Deacon who thinks that homosexuality is wrong.

I will teach my dcs that imo there is nothing wrong with a loving committed monogomaous relationship between consenting adults. I don't agree with random sex with aquaintences or either gender and ideally I think that sex should be confined to marriage/civil partners.

I don't take the bible literally, I think it would be naive to do so. Lots of old testement laws are a nonsense eg not wearing 2 types of cloth, taking slaves from neighbouring countries, stoning people who don't observe sabbath etc. As a Christian I don't have a problem discounting the OT as Jesus came and gave the new law (and didn't make any reference to homosexuality).

Traditionally homosexuals were looked upon as being really slutty (whereas heterosexuals were almost always monogamous until recently). For the church brings about questions of sexual ethics but these questions do not need to be applied to monogomous homosexual relationships imo.

The church can/will/must learn that some people are created as homosexuals and this fact cannot be changed therefore our understanding derived from Leviticus and Pauls letters of what 'should be' must change to accomadate what 'is'.

If my dcs ask me about Pauls opinion on homosexuality I will explain that my viewpoint is that his letters were to real people whose circumstances were very different to ours. Corinth in paticular was known for prostitutes/rent boys who were exploited by wealthy men.

I don't believe that when Paul wrote those letters he had any intention of laying down laws for a different place and time. Its not Gospel after all.