Question for any Atheists about religion at school

[Chocolatebunnyrabbit]

If you are not an Atheist please do not read any further as you may be offended.

DH and I are both Atheists.

DS1 is in reception at an infants which is non-denominational but is joined to/feeds into a Junior's which is C of E.

I have no problem with DS1 learning about different religions (I am Jewish by birth) but do not think that a 5 year old is really equiped to be making decisions about this. I'm also concerned that he's not being exposed to different religions at school and that Christianity appears to be being pushed a bit much for my liking.

I'm not sure how to deal with some of the questions/comments he is making.

E.G

DS1: I am praying to God in the sky. Is God dead?
Me: Some people believe that God is real some people beleive he is not, like in a story.
DS1: But Jesus died and came back.
Me: Some people like to believe in God and Jesus as it makes them feel happy and looked after. Mummy and daddy do not believe that God is real, and we look after and care for you. You'd be better praying to mummy to make you some nice food for DS2's party next weekend.

DS1: I'm praying to mummy now. (giggles)

Situation defused

Not sure if this is the right way to go about it so looking for words of wisdom/experience.

Also not sure if I should or what I would
say to the school.

BR

Sounds fine to me. Not a lot you can say to the school ime, they are obliged to provide a daily act of Christian worship. As long as you make it clear that people at school believe one thing, you believe differently and he is free to decide for himself it should be fine.
I have an 11 year old atheist, a deeply religious 9 year old and a 6 year old who couldn't care less about any of it.
I let them all do their own thing.

Your response sounds just right to me. Clear, simple without putting anybody elses beliefs down. You just have to make sure you feed them information that won't get them into scrapes with other children.

We are athiests and our DC attend a community school with a very large number of muslim children. We've been careful to make sure the DC learn to respect other religions, even if though we don't believe in any of it. DS1 got the headteacher's award for the best contributions in RE.

Cheers guys. Completely stunned me as I wasn't expecting to get these sorts of questions for a few years yet.

Told DS1 it was a story, a bit like a film and used GostBusters as an example. He then lectured me on how it wasn't a story but a film!! At least we got off the subject again.

BR

humanism.org has some useful stuff

"Sounds fine to me. Not a lot you can say to the school ime, they are obliged to provide a daily act of Christian worship."

No they aren't. They are obliges to provide a daily act of collective worship - and at least 51% of them have to be Christian in nature. The other 49% don't have to be.

I use the "some people think..." line all the time, chocolatebunnyrabbit.

Very useful link thank you.

I can hear myself saying ".. some people think...." for years to come!!

BR

The RS has to be 51% Christianity but the daily act of collective worship has to of a broadly Christian nature. You can if you wish withdraw your child from this if you want. I often sit with the JW children who are withdrawn from assembly and it's no big deal.

I think you're handling the situation really well and I'm taking notes.

I'm taking notes too. fwiw I had a Catholic education - nuns, indoctrination, one true faith etc, the works, and ended up a happy atheist at the end.

Hmm, something grates with me about "praying to mummy" but I can't really work out what so it's a rubbish criticism

I use the "some people believe" all the time. I'm an atheist, H is a lapsed but believing Catholic (whatever that means).

I like to sprinkle examples of other religions into belief-based conversations too - to make the "some people believe" less about what I believe compared to what school believes, and more about how belief is personal and wide-ranging.

No it doesn't, faeriefruitcake

"All maintained schools must provide daily collective worship for all registered pupils (apart from those who have been withdrawn from this by their parents). This is may be provided within daily assembly but the distinction should be made clear.

The head teacher is responsible for arranging the daily collective worship after consulting with the governing body. Daily collective worship must be wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character. The precise nature will depend on the family background, ages and abilities of the pupils. It is acceptable for schools to split the collective worship sessions over the school year to be 51 per cent Christian and 49 per cent other faiths or interests."

As a fellow atheist, I do know what you mean. But I think of all this stuff as being about history and tradition and therefore valuable. Although I take care to debunk anything based on belief. Your approach sounds great.

I'm still saying "some people think..." and dd is 13. Often now it's about people who think it's OK for 13 year olds to go to all night parties/wear peep-hole bras and thongs/watch 18 films/wear high heeled shoes/not eat with the family/insert innapropriate behaviour of your choice.

Have to say that Catholic indoctrination is a great head start if you end up studying medieval history!

LOL Habbibu

Thank you all for your comments.

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunchie I think I know what you mean, but for some reason I have no problem with the praying thing. I don't necesarrily think of this as being religous.. which I know is an amazingly stupid thing to say but I have prayed for sunshine on a weekend on more than one oocasion, although I could not actaully tell you who I'm praying to other than the fates!!

seeker - don't tell me stuff like this!! He's 5. I don't even want to think about the staying out late, playing coputer games thing!!

Quattrocento - history and tradition are fine. Knowledge is a powerful weapon. But being taught that there is a mythical being who will solve all your problems if you just believe, is not something I am confortable with.

With easter on the horizon this is going to get more interesting. I am waiting to see if the school are going to teach about Passover at the same time.

BR

Seeker
As set out in the 1988 School Standard Framework

Religious worship

70 Requirements relating to collective worship (1) Subject to section 71, each pupil in attendance at a community, foundation or voluntary school shall on each school day take part in an act of collective worship.
(2) Subject to section 71, in relation to any community, foundation or voluntary school?
(a) the local education authority and the governing body shall exercise their functions with a view to securing, and
(b) the head teacher shall secure,
that subsection (1) is complied with.
(3) Schedule 20 makes further provision with respect to the collective worship required by this section, including provision relating to?
(a) the arrangements which are to be made in connection with such worship, and
(b) the nature of such worship.

The 1996 act is also very similar

The 51% 49 % split is guidence, and mostly used for secondary school RS.

The point was that as parents if you don't like the content of assembly you can withdraw your child.

But isn't 5 a little young to be withdrawing him from assembly?

It's not that I don't want him exposed to religion, I just don't want him indoctrinated into 1 religion. Do they really incorperate other religions into assemblies or is this just a cop out?

I work full time so it's not really possible to attend an assembly even if I wanted to, although we have taken a day off to attend DS1's class assembly in May.

BR

Faeriefruitcake - But it does state categorically that only 51% of the collective worships have to be Christian. It's up to the Head whether they all are - and I think it's outrageous that in any but Faith schools any head would choose to have them all as Christian. "Worship" does not mean Christian worship.

The DC'S school deal with the collective worship requirement by focusing on human values. One assembly a week is devoted to exploring a value such as peace, non-violence, consideration etc. Parents are informed which value they will be concentrating on that week, so you can talk about it at home, if you wish.

I would be really annoyed if they pushed any particular religion upon the children.

I use the "Well, some people believe that..." line quite a lot. I also try to come up with other examples from other religions and round off with what I believe.

I did struggle a bit last week, though, as DD was shown round a church with her class and the priest must've talked about communion wafers because DD asked me why people were eating "Jesus's skin"? I found it quite hard to explain the whole transubstantiation thing without using the phrase "ritualised cannibalism"...

LOL Snorbs.

Yes maybe I should talk about what other people believe too... other than the school and us. Have friends that are catholic and lotsof Jewish family so can start there I suppose. At nursery they used to touch on all religions and DS1 was always coming home with pictures etc of other religous festivals. Shame they don't seem to be as open minded at school.

BR

Transubstantiation is easily explained to any child who has watched plenty of Dr Who........!

Actually, we have just started letting DS1 watch selected Dr who episodes.... I hadn't thought of that.....

BR

LOTS of things will become easier to explain, chocolatebunnyrabbit!

lol indeed