Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

LENT Bible Study 3 - Mark's Passion

17 replies

AMumInScotland · 10/03/2009 12:26

Hi all, since Kay is dealing with more important things (ie RL!) and Justa is packing to go to the Balkans, I volunteered to lead this week's Bible Study on the Passion narrative in Mark's gospel. Those of you who "know" me from these threads will be aware that I'm a liberal rather than a fundamentalist where the Bible is concerned, but you'll be relieved to know that I do actually believe that the Passion happened pretty much as described so I won't be horrifying you too much I hope .

When I read through the passage, I was expecting to focus on Jesus. After all, it is about him. But I found myself thinking more about Pilate, and wondering about the nature of power.

Pilate gets a bad press, understandably. He knowingly sent an innocent man to a horrible death, for political reasons. Most of us would agree that's a bad thing. But to what extent did he have a choice?

Pilate was the Governor - he was the man Rome had put in charge, he had an army he could call on to back up his decisions, and the whole power of the Roman Empire behind him, though it was a bit far away to call on every time things got tricky. So he had power. Lots of it. And yet... Rome was canny. It knew that defeating and invading a country was the relatively easy bit. Occupying a country for the long term was much harder (our politicians could take note of this...). So Rome didn't try to make the occupied countries do everything the Roman way, they let them do things the way they had always done, keeping their religious and community leaders, living their lives pretty much as before, so long as they were peaceful and paid their taxes. Pilate had the power in theory, but he needed the cooperation of the local religious/community leaders to keep everything going smoothly. So he had to give them what they wanted to some extent.

The religious leaders had power - within limits - but did they think of themselves as powerful? The stereotype says they did, and wanted to keep it that way. But maybe they genuinely thought that another rebel would only cause problems for the people in general, not just for their own interests. So they had power, but were also scared.

Barrabas had some power - he was popular, he was a rebel leader. OK he was temporarily in an awkward position, but he still had popular support. The crowd was happy to shout for his release when they were prompted to, and that had influence if not actual power.

The crowd had power - though without leaders they didn't know what to do with it! If the people had risen up in a revolt, the Roman army would have struggled to contain it. But there were too many different factions and they didn't work together (Do watch Monty Python's Life Of Brian for a good view of what the Holy Land was like at this time - they get lots of things right!)

Then we come back to Jesus. He had power, He was God Incarnate. He could have changed things, smitten the soldiers, taken over the leadership. But He wasn't going to use his power that way, he set it aside and accepted what had to happen, in order to achieve something that power could not. Powerlessness was what achieved a permanent change in the universe, powerlessness was what gave us a link to God which had never been possible before.

"For it is in giving that we receive,
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life"

OP posts:
MaryBS · 10/03/2009 16:42

Its funny, but I was writing about power last night! I was thinking about when I had been hurt (abused even) by my ex-husband and the power that this hurt had over me. While I continued to hurt at the memory, he still had control of me.

It reminded me of the film ?Labyrinth?, starring David Bowie as the Goblin King. His power over the young heroine is destroyed when she says to him ?You have no power over me?.

When I could imagine myself saying that to my exH, I was not only able to feel free of him, but was able to forgive him!

Niecie · 10/03/2009 17:55

I can't help feeling that the power was all in the hands of God. Everybody else's power was just an illusion.

I agree that on the face of it Pilate deserves his bad press for not going with his own opinion and releasing Jesus but I do wonder if he had a choice.

If events hadn't played out the way they did then Jesus wouldn't have died and been resurrected and then we wouldn't have been left with much of a story!

I know we have talked of free will before but I can't reconcile that with the Easter story. However I am beginning to think that it doesn't matter. All that matters is that Jesus died for us.

Anyway, that is my two penneth worth and now I suppose I had better go and read Mark!

Niecie · 10/03/2009 18:05

Sorry, can I just clarify exactly where I should start reading from and, indeed, to?

justaboutindisguise · 10/03/2009 18:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

madhairday · 10/03/2009 20:42

Thanks for this AMIS. No time now but will pop back in tomorrow.

AMumInScotland · 11/03/2009 09:39

Niecie - the passion story really covers Mark chapters 14 to 16, but I've only focussed on chapter 15 here, because we talked quite a bit about Gethsemane last time so I thought it made sense to move the story along a bit, but stop short of the Resurrection till nearer Easter.

OP posts:
Niecie · 11/03/2009 13:50

Thank you. I'll get reading.

justaboutisawayfromhome · 11/03/2009 17:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

BetsyBoop · 12/03/2009 14:23

I've found this one really interesting, you are right MIS, how much power did Pilate really have?

It made me think of situations at work where are a manager you are expected to implement new policies etc, and sometimes that's not pleasant. Of course you can challenge the decisions in private with your bosses, but rarely will the decision be changed, so you have to go out to your team and support the changes in a positive way - not an easy or comfortable thing to do, but the other choice is to resign... Obviously this is slightly different than sending a innocent man to be crucified, but I think we can all identify with the internal struggle Pilate had.

I also decided to read the passion story in the other gospels & came across an interesting/relevant bit in John 19

7The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."

8When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid, 9and he went back inside the palace. "Where do you come from?" he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10"Do you refuse to speak to me?" Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?"

11Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

So I think this is reinforcing what we've been discussing - how much power did Pilate really have?

Niecie · 13/03/2009 09:32

I like your analogy Betsyboop. I completely agree that Pilate had his hands tied.

I think the thing that strikes me is the way that Jesus took the power away from Pilate. He was able to do it just by being silent. He said nothing in his own defence and so left Pilate no choice but to go with the relgious leaders and the crowd and keep Jesus instead of Barrabas.

In fact Jesus seems to go as far as to absolve Pilate from guilt, implicitly by taking the decision out of his hands and explicitly in Betsy's quote from John.

webstermum · 16/03/2009 16:17

I've lost my way a bit this week. To me the only power is God's power, otherwise what had been predestined could never have come to pass. If everyone in the story had the power to behave as they chose the outcome could've been very different - back to free will again! Another thing that strikes me is the power to forgive. It is an amazing thing that Jesus had the power to forgive everything that was done to him and also to show forgiveness to those that were crucified alongside him, completely selfless. I love that even in his darkest moment he was still thinking of others and using his power to set them free. In my life I am constantly amazed by the power of prayer. This is God's power showing me every day how He can make a difference to me.

Niecie · 18/03/2009 15:00

I was wondering what had happened to this thread! I just came looking for it and see it still alive and well.

Webstermum - I know what you are saying but I don't know that Jesus had to forgive anybody if you think that they didn't have the choice on the outcome of events. I think he did not judge or condemn them because he understood that whilst they would have felt many emotions about what had happened he knew they were powerless to do anything about it.

That said, us mere mortals would have still not have taken kindly to being put to death so Jesus shows his love by rising above that.

Anyway, this started a week ago so has anybody thought anything about this week's topic of conversation. I know everybody is very busy and I would offer to get things started but I have absolutely know idea about what comes next.

AMumInScotland · 18/03/2009 15:07

I think it was going to be Revelation chapter 2 next! I don't know what the plan was, but no sign of anyone starting it up yet, so if you want to have a go then why not...

OP posts:
Niecie · 18/03/2009 15:12

Goodness you are quick off the mark! Were you lurking?

I know nothing about Revelations 2 but if you give me a chance to read it I can at least start a thread and ask for some education in return!

I don't want to step on anybody's toes if they have prepared something but forgotten to post.

AMumInScotland · 18/03/2009 15:14

I'm bored at work

OP posts:
justaboutback · 18/03/2009 19:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

justaboutback · 18/03/2009 20:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

New posts on this thread. Refresh page