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Original poster

Death

23 replies

ABloke · 23/02/2009 09:14

Yes it is morbid, if not a tad depressing but I just do not/cannot get it.

I understand we die. I do not understand why as it takes us from our loved ones.

We see our loved ones in pain (cancer) when dieing and we just have to get on with it. As I am getting older I see/hear more about death as (obviously) all my relatives are also getting older. It is not only old people though as we lost someone last year who was still young.

My children question me, asking me why/where/what ? I do not know. I have no answers.

I do not know if I believe we go to "heaven" and shine like the brightest star but I say it.

Another nice thought would be that we all meet up again in "heaven", nice thought but I do not believe it.

Does anyone have any thoughts/beliefs that may help me ?

or am I beyond help?

TIA

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justaboutindisguise · 23/02/2009 09:26

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DutchOma · 23/02/2009 09:28

There is Dutch poem the details of which I cannot recall at the moment, but I could try and find them for you if you like.
It says something like :"I dreamt that I was living slowly, slower than the oldest stone. And I saw everybody around me get old but not die. The world I lived in was unbearable because everybody was so old."
Death is part of life. Whatever you believe about a life after death, death is a good part of life. It does not do away with the pain of separation, but think for a moment what life would be like if nobody had ever died.

Niecie · 23/02/2009 09:28

I don't have any answers either. However, I did ask a vicar once what she thought happened in heaven.

The thought that bothers me is that you are supposed to be reunited with loved ones but what if you have been happily married twice, one spouse dying and then you remarried, how are you supposed to reunite and relive these happy marriages in heaven when there are two of them.

The vicar said that she did believe that you would be reunited with loved ones in heaven but that you would love everybody equally. Your family would be no more to you than anybody else.

I don't know whether to consider that a weight off my shoulders (not that I have had 2 spouses but the idea anyway) or whether to be a bit depressed that you don't have anybody special.

Maybe heaven is like the Garden of Eden was meant to be before Adam and Eve stuffed up?

Notquitegrownup · 23/02/2009 09:41

Niecie - someone asked Jesus exactly the same question about what happened in heaven to people with more than one spouse, and he replied that "people will neither marry or be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven" - which sounds a bit depressing, if you enjoy being married, but since we don't know what life is like as an angel - maybe there's something even better in store!

Resurrection bodies are also covered by the way! After the resurrection, Mary Magdalene saw Jesus but didn't recognise Him - suggesting that our new bodies won't be exactly the same as ours now. However, when He spoke, she was in no doubt who He was, suggesting that we will be recognisable to those who love us.

Original poster
ABloke · 23/02/2009 09:47

Thanks I may look at that thread. Hmm yes it certainly somthing to think about, although why I am thinking about it atm I do not know.

So many un-answered questions.

I often wonder if I had been forced to go to church I may have a better understanding.

Perhaps not though?

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justaboutindisguise · 23/02/2009 09:50

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Notquitegrownup · 23/02/2009 10:05

I am sorry AB - I've just realised that I completely ignored your OP!

I agree with Justa that forcing folks to church aint great, but visiting - perhaps with your children - might help. However, the Reluctant worshippers is a great way to get to church, without leaving your computer.

Original poster
ABloke · 23/02/2009 13:05

I like Churches.

I like the Catholic ones best best but I am not a Catholic. I do wander in at times.

strange

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solidgoldbullet4myvalentine · 23/02/2009 13:09

Organisms die to make way for new ones. So it's important to enjoy the life we have. For DC it's a good idea to emphasis that nearly everyone lives a long, long time (yes, weknow this isn't true but there is no need to scare them into thinking that their number could be up any minute) until their bodies are all worn out and broken and then that's the end.

Original poster
ABloke · 23/02/2009 13:13

that sounds like a great way to put it. Unfortunately, at present due to family being a certain religion one of my children thinks we die and then we come back, it is so difficult discussing this with a 9 year old. yet I feel I must tell him something other then "we come back".

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GooseyLoosey · 23/02/2009 13:15

I am an atheist so heaven etc is not an option for me.

My grandmother recently died and one of my children became quite scared about the idea of death so I had to think about what it really meant. I told her that everything that is in the world has previously been something else and will eventually become something else - you can regard your component molecules as on a journey through eternity.

She liked this idea and we even planted some of my grandmother's ashes under a beautiful plant in the garden so part of her is still with us.

DevilsAdvocaat · 23/02/2009 13:20

abloke, i have pretty similar views on life after death as you, i think!

i wish i believed that there is more, i have no issues saying people go to heaven to children, i just don't believe it myself.

i am currently pondering the 'circle of life' thing here. i don't know if it will make you feel better or worse.

check out c4 on thursday night, a documentary about the circle of life. i feel like i am supposed to watch it.

i am forever searching for clarity

DevilsAdvocaat · 23/02/2009 13:21

ah goosey, that's lovely.

GooseyLoosey · 23/02/2009 13:28

Can I also add that dd asked what I would become after I died. I said I had no way of knowing but I would like to be buried under a tree and part of me would probably become the tree. She asked if she could make some paper out of part of the tree and then when she died if some of her could be ink so we would always be together!

DevilsAdvocaat · 23/02/2009 13:32

that is so sweet. how old is she?

AMumInScotland · 23/02/2009 13:45

I think if you don't believe one specific thing yourself, then its fairer to children to say "Some people believe x, some people believe y. We don't know for sure, because people don't come back and tell us. What do you think?"

In fact, even if you do believe one version yourself, you should let children know there are different opinions and none of them are proven.

So, some people think we just end, but of course we're old and tired and worn out so we're not unhappy about it, our atoms go back into the earth and become new things. Some people believe that our spirit comes back, but we have no memory of our previous life so we never know it. Some people believe that we go to live with God in Heaven.

Children will meet these ideas anyway, by 9 I expect your relative has heard other versions from friends at school, since he'll know people who have lost elderly relatives.

The most you can do is make sure he knows not everyone thinks exactly the same, on this or any other issue, so he can think it through when he's ready.

GooseyLoosey · 23/02/2009 13:54

DA - she is 4.

solidgoldbullet4myvalentine · 23/02/2009 14:18

Ooh, I like that, Gooseyloosey, had forgotten about the molecules...
I do appreciate that with older DC you have to do the 'some people believe...' bit but there isn't necessarily anything wrong with adding 'but that's daft' when it is as long as you emphasise that people are entitled to hold their beliefs and not be insulted about them to their faces etc.
Oh, and before anyone starts spitting the dummy about how dare I criticize their particular brand of superstition: do bear in mind that when kids start getting exposed to different viewpoints they will get exposed to some completely mentalist ones - either because you live in such an urban area that there are a few Scientologists or David Icke followers, or because older DC have picked up some entertaining ideas from horror films/stories and are sharing them with their siblings. So your DC will undoubtedly come home with at least one loopy theory that upsets them, and you will have to point out that not everyone is right...

AMumInScotland · 23/02/2009 14:36

True, if your DC come home worried about zombies, it's fair enough to say "not every idea is equally valid, even if Johnny in Year 3 swears that's what will happen to your cat/granny because he saw it in a film"

IorekByrnison · 23/02/2009 14:38

DD is asking a lot of questions about death lately. I mostly say "Nobody really knows, but some people say x, y, z." I think it's a good thing for children to realise that we don't know everything.

(I realise of course I am shamelessly indoctrinating her with my militant agnosticism, but what can you do?)

Lemontart · 23/02/2009 14:45

I found the movie Brother Bear particularly helpful when talking about spirits and the idea of moving on but still being "with" us, the concepts of ancestors etc. It led to some very meaningful and positive conversations with my death obsessed (then 5) DD.

justaboutindisguise · 23/02/2009 19:32

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Original poster
ABloke · 24/02/2009 07:58

Thanks ladies. Lot's of good replied.

I do tell them atm some people believe this and other believe this and if people come back then they may be hiding from me etc etc.

Thanks for the link. I think I will watch that on Thursday.

I suppose this will teach me for only going to Sunday School 3 weeks before each trip.

I liked that trips away.

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