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Original poster

Being 'socially inacceptable'...

229 replies

MrsSeanBean · 03/02/2009 22:22

I just wanted to say that it's great to be able to chat about this topic (Philosophy / religion / spirituality ) on MN.

I find it so much more diffuclt to talk about religion / faith / spiritual things in RL.

I find assume that no-one in RL will think in a remotely similar way to me, or share any of my beliefs, and will think I am some kind of religious nutter.

Do you think it's just the case that people are more reluctant to talk about these things in RL?

Do you think it would be worthwhile / beneficial to instigate more RL conversations on this subject?

I heard the other day that to say you believe in God is almost 'socially inacceptable' now, which is rather sad.

OP posts:
mommycat · 03/02/2009 22:48

Spirituality is a very personal subject, maybe now more than ever, in the secular society we live in.

'socially unacceptable'? who said that?

I like something I heard on the radio a few months back. I can't even remember what the programme was about. But what someone said was that no one can prove God doesn't exist any more than anyone can prove He(or She!) does exist.

We simply don't know.

So, shouldn't everyone just be allowed to have their own views, as long as they are kind to others and don't start wars over their beliefs?

(just answering because it was on the no answers post... i find this topic as difficult as the next person.. so let's see what happens now...)

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 03/02/2009 22:54

Thanks Mommycat.
The socially unacceptable thing was something I heard on the radio.

OP posts:
Tortington · 03/02/2009 22:56

somehow i mentioned my teenage daughter was having a sleepover - some new friends she met on retreat.....to my drum teacher...

he nowthinks i am a zealous nutter religous freakazoid ...i could see it, in his eyes

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 03/02/2009 22:59

I'm interested why there is this 'nutter' label attached. It seems to apply mainly to Christians IME.

OP posts:
saadia · 03/02/2009 23:00

To the OP, I think you are right about the social aspects. I was surprised to read earlier this week that a nurse had been suspended because she offered to pray for one of her patients. The patient complained. I was quite baffled that it was considered such a bad thing to do.

Original poster
MrsSeanBean · 03/02/2009 23:01

Me too saadia. If you don't believe, what harm can praying do? If you do believe, it can only be a good thing. I heard about that case as well and felt sorry for the nurse. I am sure she had the patient's best interests at heart.

OP posts:
cory · 04/02/2009 08:18

MrsSeanBean on Tue 03-Feb-09 22:59:36
"I'm interested why there is this 'nutter' label attached. It seems to apply mainly to Christians IME."

I think people tend to believe that Muslims or Hindus or Sikhs believe because they have been brought up that way. So they can't really have the kind of personal, intense conversion experience that is so embarrassing

For the same reason, I think people are less embarrassed by Catholics (you can always assume they are just following tradition) than by evangelical Christians.

AMumInScotland · 04/02/2009 10:17

I'm with cory on the "nutter" question - people (in the UK at least) assume that other religions are as much about culture and background as anything else, so it's fine for people to believe what they've grown up with.

But most people have grown up with the idea that Christianity isn't really something people believe in, it's just a default if anything. "Nothing in particular" = "Put down C of E then"!

Actually I say "UK" but really I mean England - in Scotland people do define themselves much more by the Catholic/Protestant divide, so there are fewer people who don't count themselves as one or the other, even if only on "tribal" grounds rather than actual belief.

TrinityRhino · 04/02/2009 10:23

I would never call anyone a 'nutter' for their beleifs

that is awful and falls under being polite and respectin other people

but I will think privately that you need to look inside yourself and really think about what your doing as IMO it is crazy
and I would doubt your exploratory thought abilities and wonder about the need you feel to be a sheep
but that is just my personal opinion
and yes I do have christian friends and yes they do know how I feel and we have some very interesting conversations

Threadworm · 04/02/2009 10:26

I've found this site a completely brilliant place to talk to Christians. I think that in rl it is so hard to get beyond small talk, and the details of faith are way beyond small talk.

In rl any conversations I have with a Christian might be stilted by my liberal-angsty need to respect others' beliefs. It makes for an awful self-consciousness and overcaution. That creates distance, where there doesn't need to be any. (My fault, not the Christian's.)

But here, respect does not seem to be in the least incompatible with challenging questioning, etc. And that is lovely. I've learnt a lot.

DutchOma · 04/02/2009 10:31

The funny thing is that since I have become more "up front" about my Christian beliefs I have felt less treated like a 'nutter' than before. (Not that I'm not a nutter, you understand )
I work one morning a week in a charity shop that is staffed mainly by church members, although all the proceeds go back to the community. Quite often we get people with very great needs, emotionally and otherwise. When we offer to pray with them we have found great blessing ourselves in doing so. So often people have never had anybody who has asked a blessing for them and they are moved to tears when we do so.
We ask about church allegiance and give an invitation. Obviously we always ask if they would like us to pray with them and if they refuse we ask if they mind if we pray for them later. I think that is where the 'nurse' went wrong, she just launched into prayer without asking and the lady thought it 'was a strange thing to do for a nurse'. She didn't mind and she didn't make a complaint, a colleague did that, rather spitefully I thought.

AMumInScotland · 04/02/2009 10:38

TrinityRhino - do you therefore assume that the believers you meet haven't looked inside themselves and thought about what they're doing? For me, there's a whole lot of that going on, and I would have been more of a "sheep" if I'd gone for the far easier route of not having a religous faith.

I don't mind people not agreeing with me, or even thinking it's strange. But I do mind that people think I'm stupid or haven't thought about it, or only believe because I can't cope without a prop. Those are making very big and insulting assumptions about me as an individual, and believers in general.

cory · 04/02/2009 11:06

Trinity, I would understand you questioning my thought abilities, but I don't quite get why being the only member of my family who is a Christian makes me a sheep. I thought a sheep was someone who just followed other people's lead without thinking for themselves.

Niecie · 04/02/2009 11:51

It was Jeremy Vine who said it was almost socially unacceptable to believe in God wasn't it. I think for him he, has to be be neutral for the purposes of his job. He can't have a point of view on this any more than he can tell people which political party he votes for. Obviously I don't know what his personal experience is though.

I find MN quite refreshing that you can have a conversation on beliefs/God/religion because you can't have these conversations in RL, often not even with people who go to the same church. It is a heavy conversation to have, most of the time, and our lives don't really allow us the time and space to get into a big debate on anything.

I do feel like a nutter if I mention that I go to church(without even mentioning the G word). The few times I have said anything to people whose beliefs I don't really know, I have had 'Oh well, never mind, we won't hold it against you. You seem quite normal on the whole'

I do feel resentful of non-believers who assume that they are the rational, deep thinkers who have a monopoly on truth and the rest of us are 'sheep'. How can we be sheep when we seem to be going so much against the grain by going to church and having a belief in God?

To me there is something more 'sheeplike' to people who don't believe in God merely because they haven't thought about it at all. Atheism is almost the default position for them. Easier to say you don't beleive than to explore the issue, surely.

Niecie · 04/02/2009 11:53

Whoops - appalling punctuation - commas are an issue, obviously. Apologies.

TrinityRhino · 04/02/2009 12:00

I would like to officially retract my 'sheep' comment
That is not what I was trying to get across, that is not waht I meant

I think the 'needing a prop for life' is more what I meant

Niecie · 04/02/2009 12:09

Thank you for withdrawing the sheep reference. There can be sheep on both sides of the fence - surely it is anybody who follows the crowd without thought?

I am not sure about replacing it with the prop comment, though. Makes it sound like it is the easy option to have a faith which it isn't.

justaboutindisguise · 04/02/2009 12:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Threadworm · 04/02/2009 12:14

I like the idea that there are sheep on both sides of the fence. It is a very pastoral image. From where I'm grazing, the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence. Plus, you have a shepherd and I don't. Snot fair.

justaboutindisguise · 04/02/2009 12:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Threadworm · 04/02/2009 12:16

Possibly, I am a sheep sitting on the fence.

Threadworm · 04/02/2009 12:17

Oh, yes, we have a pub. And the devilish jukebox in there has all the best tunes.

Niecie · 04/02/2009 12:21

Why am I now envisaging an episode of 'Sean the Sheep'? I see a pyramid of sheep with the top one falling over the dry stone wall.

I used to be there but find I have slipped onto the side with the shepherds - they have pubs over there too surely (unless you are a strict methodist or baptist)?

justaboutindisguise · 04/02/2009 12:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Niecie · 04/02/2009 12:22

not 'over there'... 'over here'

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