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Original poster

If you believe in One God

32 replies

HallelujahHeisBorntoMary · 01/01/2009 11:15

Was there a point at which you suddenly believed? What part did reason/logic play in your decision to believe?

OP posts:
yama · 01/01/2009 11:22

Good questions. I don't believe but I thought I'd bump for you.

mersmam · 01/01/2009 11:30

For me it just seems the most obvious thing that everything comes from one point.
It just makes more sense to me that there is one God rather than lots of them all doing different things!

amber32002 · 01/01/2009 11:40

Not exactly. I've believed, and experienced a relationship with, God since being a small child, (and despite this disability). My reason and logic is because I can in some way sense His presence. It's a very real thing for me. The Bible is great, but it's not a set of facts by which I concluded that God exists.

DutchOma · 01/01/2009 12:05

No, there was no point at which I suddenly believed, I always, from a child felt there was more than I could see. The logic came much later when people questioned my faith.
It still seems much more logical to believe in one God than in anything else, but then, I don't know much about other faiths or religions.

Sesthinks2009willbeagreatyear · 01/01/2009 12:09

When I was about 10, I started to sense an experience of God and remember making an active choice to believe and forge a personal relationship with God.

Over the years, that has developed and like DutchOma, the logic came later.

TheFallenMadonna · 01/01/2009 12:10

I have always believed I think. I was brought up in a practising family. Reason and logic have played no part in continuing my belief. They have played a significant part in my questioning of my faith of course. My belief is irrational. But I still believe.

Reallytired · 01/01/2009 12:18

I had a similar sort of discusssion with my son's best friend's parents who are Hari Kristnas. They argue that its possible to believe in one God and many gods at the same time.

They see a bit of God in all living things. (Hence many gods) However they also argue that God is like a Jigsaw. Ie.

One jigsaw = one God
Many pieces of jigsaw = many gods.

What is interesting is whether there is any way of reconciling this view with Christianity.

Sesthinks2009willbeagreatyear · 01/01/2009 12:21

I've never heard the jigsaw analogy before. My immediate thought is that it could be a useful way to describe the Trinity.
Hmmm... except it would only be a 3 piece jigsaw puzzle which sounds quite simple but the Trinity is so not simple to get your head round...
Well it was a nice initial thought maybe!

AMumInScotland · 01/01/2009 15:04

I did fairly suddenly start believing in God in a meaningful way in my teens, after a childhood which included Sunday School but didn't have any proper "connection" for me IYSWIM. I believed because I became aware of the presence of God, and decided to accept a relationship with it.

Reason and logic were second to experience - I could never have believed because of anything other people said, or any argument anyone could have put forward, though I now apply logic and reason to my belief. Without the experience, I would not believe.

bloss · 01/01/2009 15:28

Message withdrawn

ClarissimoUsedToBePeachy · 01/01/2009 16:02

The jigsaw analogy interests me massively as the current theory in Hindu studies (my degree is in world faiths and philosophy) that mainstream hinduism is in fact a monotheistic faith. The rational is that much of the literature depicts the other Gods as aspects of the Supreme God rather than indivisdual beings as such; there in contrast i village Hinnduism where many gods are certainly worshipped. Clearly this is a controversial theory, there certainly is much basis fr it in traditional literature if not contemporary practice.

The jigsaw doesn't work with the trinity: I don't claim to have massive understanding of that (indeed I don't know anyone who truly does no matter how high falutin their quals), but each erson of the Trinity is supposed to be also a whole: a singular jigsaw piece is not that.

For me myself One God was the ony real life alternative to agnosticism growing up in monocultural (at that time) Somerset. My faith leans towards the unitarian version (Vivekananda is someone well worth a read) but I definitely believe in one God; anything else just doesn't work for me at all.

Sesthinks2009willbeagreatyear · 01/01/2009 16:11

Best analogy for Trinity I've heard is ice, water and steam. I agree with Peachy though that there is no perfect explanation. It's beyond our earthly human minds.

Interesting to read about Hinduism potentially being based on a single god. Helps me understand it more and makes a bit more sense but I doubt many practising Hindus would agree. Interesting though - thanks Peachy!

ClarissimoUsedToBePeachy · 01/01/2009 16:22

If you read Hindu texts (have some great ones I can lend anyne LOL)- the Sureme God Brahman created everything in creatin; paryt of that was the gods and they are of the hindu 'trinity' in the first pace (Brah'man, Vishnu, Siva). After that comes minor deities / consorts which asre worshipped as gods but ultimatey all creationn is owed to Brahman. Brahman is a complex notion- but he is everything- Atman (the 'soul' or very core of the being which is holy and which is immortal), he is the supreme consciousness, and indescribable.

Reallytired · 01/01/2009 18:04

I think of the Trinity as like looking at the same person from different angles. Ie. someone might look very different from the front, back and the top of their head.

I like the ice, steam, water analogy, especially as all three states of water can exist at the triple point. (If I can remember any A-level Chemistry)

scienceteacher · 01/01/2009 18:31

ice/water/steam = modalism herecy

Original poster
HallelujahHeisBorntoMary · 01/01/2009 21:15

I don't like the ice/water/steam analogy. I like "the Shield of the Trinity" or Scutum Fidei, bottom right on the link below:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-variations-thumb.png

OP posts:
Original poster
HallelujahHeisBorntoMary · 01/01/2009 21:18

Interestingly enough, what prompted this was I was reading what Alistair McGrath had to say on Thomas Aquinas, how most people come to believe in God through what may be called "God's self-revelation", but how the logic and the reason come afterwards, as an examination of that faith.

OP posts:
Sesthinks2009willbeagreatyear · 01/01/2009 21:29

I've never seen that shield - like it!
Seems that most people on here agree with the theory about some sort of experience and then logic.

thatsnotmymonster · 01/01/2009 21:30

I have always believed from being a very young child and my faith had grown as I have experienced God and witnessed amazing things throughout my life.

Logic cannot explain belief. Although it seems clear to me that it is easier to believe that our amazingly, complex, world was created and did not just come into being by accident- I mean how would that happen

Original poster
HallelujahHeisBorntoMary · 01/01/2009 21:45

Logic can't explain belief, no, but I think we do sometimes try to rationalise why it is we believe what we do, not necessarily just in God himself, but perhaps on moral issues and articles of faith (such as the Creed)

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scienceteacher · 01/01/2009 21:53

I think you need to have an encounter with Christ before the bible etc. makes a lot of sense.

This may happen before you are old enough to realise, and growing up learning more about the Christian faith is part of your normal upbringing. Or it could happen as an adult, either in a 'road to Damascus', or more gradually.

Once you have that encounter and decide that Chrstianity is the path you want to follow, it is pretty hard to resist learning as much as you can about the faith.

I don't think you can just pick up the bible and some commentaries, and make it really speak to you, although no doubt God introduce himself to some people this way.

I think that most people have their first encounter with Christ because another Christian has led them there via their friendship, mission, support etc.

bloss · 01/01/2009 22:22

Message withdrawn

Niecie · 01/01/2009 22:23

I have come at from the same direction as Bloss I think. From working through the logic and then being left with no other option than to believe. Science can only go so far no matter what the atheists would have you believe. In fact it has been discussion on MN with atheists that have really crystalized this for me which is possibly not what they intended.

That does make the faith part difficult though because you don't really get that without experiencing God and logic can't help with that. We have been going to church as a family for the last 3.5yrs (went to Sunday school as a child and not much after that) and I would say that I have more faith now than when I started but there hasn't been some huge revelation, more a gradual thing based on other people's testimonies and experiences, as much as my own, forcing me to reappraise what has happened to me and seeing that maybe God has had a hand in things.

I think the faith bit is harder than the belief bit. Having a relationship with God and handing over your life to Him are much harder. I'm still working on that but I think I can only do that with more theological knowledge which is hard work.

Tortington · 01/01/2009 22:24

i was brought up to believe, and i still do

ByThePowerOfBaileys · 01/01/2009 22:27

I looked at the information - and read quite alot about the historical information abotu Jesus - the leap to believing he was the Son of God was not palpable, more a comfy pair of slippers that just feel right.