Getting ready for church and breastfeeding- such a stress

[designergirl]

Hi.We have 3 girls - 5 yrs,2 yrs and a 4 months ols baby. It takes us forever (seems like) to get us all ready for church. We are usually 15-20 mins late but as the worship service goes on for an hour it's not too bad. Last week was terrible, we got up around 7am, but everything went wrong. I startd preparing food for after service (to try and be super organized), burnt it and started again. Had sorted out clothes for kiids to wear but had a bad day with baby on Sat so hadn't had time to iron them, and then noticed that one was dirty so had to find something else, a shirt got burnt while ironing, and breastfed baby 3 times.The morning was terrible, much worse than usual. We thought, well we know we're going to be late (service starts at 10.30) but we'll just go anyway, better to go late than not at all, and service often doesn't finish til 1pm anyway.
We got there at 11.20am and found there was a visiting preacher. Later in the sermon I took baby out as she was unsettled. I went to the car and breatfed her there. Dh told me later that while I was outside with baby the preacher singled us out, talked about the family arriving late and how we shld be on time, and the woman has the ability to dress the children, not the man etc etc. dh was very upset about being singled out like that, and we know that we were late, and it is sth we are trying to do sth about tbh.

I feel really upset bcse we are struggling to get o/selves all ready for church and our church is all open plan, they have a screen behing which I can go and breastfeed the baby, but I don't like doing this as baby still cries until I feed her and I feel a bit embarrassed. That's why I try and feed her just before we go, in the hope that she might last some time.

I do normally dress the kids, but as I was cooking this morning dh did it, and personally I don't thinki God cares who dresses the kids. This Sunday we're going to sleep in and relax, as dh works hard and I'm exhausted with 3 young children, and getting dd1 up for school. Next week we're going to looki for somewhere else- not so we can turn up late all the time, but so we don't get condemned for trying our best.

Does anyone have an example of a great church service that caters for everyone's needs, eg nursing mums, children etc. and can anyone tell me what their Sunday morning routine goes like.

Sorry it's so long, just needed a rant!

I am angry on your behalf that sich a comment would be made. In our church (simialr length service to you, people are often late - especially those with small children - and no-one bats an eyelid. Do not worry about what your children are wearing, or you for that matter - our church is jeans and t-shirts, including the vicar usually!

I breastfed both my kids in church - we usually have children (and sonetimes adults too)dancing at the front or in the aisle, then the children go out to age specific groups. I am sure there must be a more family friendly church in your area.

We live in Bolton, Greater Manchester.I, too, am sure there are more family friendly churches.

Why do you go to that church, DG?

We actually stopped going to Church because of some of the old biddies repeatedly tutting at us (it's a long story), but I have to say the vicar was nice and welcoming, and there was no fuss about bf or anything like that.

I certainly wouldn't go behind a screen or out of the church building just to bf. I also wouldn't stand for being criticised for making the effort to get a large family of young children to church on time - I would make a complaint to the leadership team. If God wouldn't mind, then neither should the preacher.

Why are none of the community rallying round and offering to help you on Sundays?? I agree with the other posters, it sounds like it's time for a new church that's more welcoming.

Regarding lunch, if you make up a casserole type thing and potatoes the day before, you can heat them up in no time and still have a proper Sunday lunch if you want. It's nice to come home to that. I have even put a roast in the oven on a timer and that has worked, but there is probably a small risk of burning the house down, of course . For the kids I used to take drinks and bits of apple and cheese with me to keep them going during the service.

I am completely horrified that someone would treat you in this way! I am STUNNED SHOCKED DISGUSTED! (And I am a preacher - although if its any comfort, if that WERE the preacher's attitude, he'd be entirely disapproving of me, a WOMAN up in the poopit, daring to preach to men...)

Now I think about it, the behaviour of the preacher actually reminded me just a little of the men in the film "Son of Rambow"!!

and .

I know what you mean about organisation on Sunday mornings - I wake at 7 (or am up BFing anyway) , mass is at 9 and I am running out the door with wet hair, creased coat etc and what not. I go with my mum who is arriving at 8 tomorrow to help me get my 2 ready. We were late last week (still 5 mins before start) and had to double park (we were blocked from behind so no choice!) and a man actually got out of his car when we came out and shouted at us! Anyway, we have a room with one big glass wall & speakers so all the hooligans youngsters can sit in there and squabble play nicely with their cars and I BF there and DS can play (14 weeks & 2.8). I have BF in the main bit - even BF during DSs baptism - that was abit though! Get as much ready the night before as you can - shower in the eve so you can maybe go without in the morning, clothes laid out - baby dressed first so as soon as the rest isdone, last thing you have to do is feed then go, rather than feed, dress then have to feed again.

Oh, and people are back and forth like boomerangs in our church!

my dh says that something weird happens between 9.30 and 10.00 in our house - time speeds up and we end up late - up to 9.30 everything is fine but then its just a mad 1/2 hour! OUr service is about 20 minutes together and then creche/sunday school out the back. I usually fed dd3 out in creche but I could have done so in church had I wanted to too. I can't believe you were singled out like that and had that happened in our church I would have made a huge fuss! Look for somewhere you are welcome that has lots of children activities.

How astonishingly rude of the preacher. I am feeling so on your behalf. I am a church children's worker and would have things to say if anything singled out a family like that in our church. Family life is stressful enough without judgemental ignoramuses spouting off like that.

You say he was a visiting preacher. Were any of the regulars apologetic on his behalf? If not, leave, tell them why and find a church that accepts all people in a loving manner, as one might expect of an organisation which claims to have Jesus as it's head.

In terms of getting organised for church, the only things that spring to mind are sort out kids clothes and anything else you need to take the night before and do not attempt to cook anything before you go. But really, find a church that has a sensible service length, so you can shoot home for a cheese sandwich afterwards, with happy kids that have enjoyed their worship experience. They definitely exist.

And you really should not be made to feel that you have to hide in the car while you are feeding your baby. In case of withering comments, point them in the direction of the many lovely pictures of Mary nurturing baby Jesus in the way our creator intended. I bet she didn't hide behind a screen or nip out to the car.

Thinking of you. I really hope you have a better experience tomorrow.

Would they have asked this lady to stop breastfeeding in Church?

I think this is incredibly sad, and would look for another church. I am an aetheist, but from a religious family (my sister is a vicar), and feel there is a real problem if church becomes a place where you get told off for failing rather than supported. Aren't families for celebrating?

I am thinking that perhaps this is the sort of church were you dress up? Perhaps you need to look for somewhere less formal for a few years, as that would significantly reduce your stress in preparing for church. I do wonder how the preacher knew your dh had dressed the children.

Slight hijack but not entirely ... I am wondering whether other MNetters think that overall, many churches in the UK are actually becoming rather intolerant of modern women and their families in general, possibly because of the ageing demographic of the congregations? Or is this me being paranoid?

Our vicar, who is lovely on many levels, stood up at the school service and told all the working mums off for not being SAHMs, saying they were only doing it for the money, to buy Playstations and consumer goods. Jaws dropped - most people do worthwhile public sector work around by us, eg doctors, nurses, teachers, academics, m/ws, physios and so on.

The general reaction afterwards was along these lines: "If someone gave me a nice 6-bed period vicarage in the centre of a decent village to live in for next to nothing, then I wouldn't need to be killing myself working to pay the mortgage anyway". Suffice it to say that nobody much goes to his family service now ...

I don't know, maybe some smaller churches.
Certainly that is not typical of my Church which is very inclusive.
We have quite a big student congregation (my husband supervises the Student Ministry Team) and up to recently we had a female curate (who recently has moved away to be a vicar at another Church. She would certainly be classed as a WOHM, although he children are grown up and flown the nest she certainly worked full time when she was younger.
Funnily enough our vicar has been running a series about Change within the Church, and the need to become more dynamic and keeping abreast of societal trends.

I don't recognise the situation you describe, VBM.

Our preaching follows the pattern of explaining what the bible is saying, what it means in the context in which is was written, and what it means for our lives.

I don't think anyone would be singled out as an example of how their lifestyle was wrong; instead, the message would be a positive one (eg, following your example - how we can live the lives God wants for us in the light of having to work). Women worked (hard) during biblical times - that didn't preclude them from having family values.

We do not do fire and brimstone in our church, but believe more in discipleship as the effective way for people to move forward on their Christian journeys. Instructions come from the Holy Spirit not the pulpit. The job of Christians (in church leadership or not) is to be encouraging not judgmental.

I am very relieved to hear it is different elsewhere. I would hate to think things were sliding backwards in terms of tolerance and understanding of women.

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions and encouragement. It is a shame, but none of the congregation has ever offered to help us.
Even if the preacher had just mentioned lateness, I wldn't have minded tbh, but he said "the couple who came late with their children"
We are mature Christians, we are able to respond to the conviction of the Holy Spirit,we don't need the condemnation of man.

It sounds like a very loveless church, DG.

Is it possible, DG that God has a different work for you to do in a different church? Is this His way of saying:- "move on?" I don't know your reasons for being in your current church, maybe your father (in law) is the minister? but it does sound from what you have said that there is not much you take from the service and not a lot that you can give to the congregation there, which is helpful to them.

Sounds hellish. Don't you dread it? I'd change church to one with a more accepting, forgiving preacher / congregation. Why put yourself and your family through this?

The very fact that none of the congregation has ever offered to help makes me feel so sad for you.

When we first became parents, our church community sprang into action. Suddenly there were surrogate grandparents, aunties and uncles all over the place. Home cooked food appeared on our doorstep while DD1 was a tiny (fractious) baby. We were overwhelmed with the support we received.

DD1 is six now and the church is truly a second home to her and her sister. They know that there are any number of people they can call upon for a cuddle/story/chat before or after worship, and there is no expectation that they will be anything but normal kids. And it is entirely, completely immaterial what they wear. Which is just as well, given some of the outlandish outfits they select on a Sunday morning!

And this is not a particularly large, child-friendly operation. Just a normal, medium sized Methodist church, with middle-of-the-road theology. The congregation is aging, much like others, but the handful of families are made to feel very much at home.

I hope you find somewhere better, where your children can find their own spiritual place without being judged.

VBM, I don't know about the set up for your vicar, but when my sister was a vicar having a house provided was about the only perk. From the perspective of someone in a normal career, it seemed a poor choice, although I know that being a vicar is one of those things you can put a lot or a little effort into. Certainly pay, pension, privacy and control were all low on the agenda.

Having said that I would have been livid to have received such a sermon.

DutchOma, I think maybe God does have a work for us in another church. It's funny that this week the pastor's wife of another church we used to go to phoned us up to ask how we are.

I really empathise with your morning struggle on a Sunday! My DH is the assistant pastor at my church (Vineyard) and leaves at 8.30am every Sunday. I also have 3 girls roughly the same age and if yours are anything like mine, it isn't simply a case of dressing them, it's trying to get them to understand that leggings are not suitable for snow! Not all churches are like your experience and I would be horrified if that was ever my experience at my church. Last month I sat front row breast feeding during opening bit, sprayed milk over some poor unsuspecting visitor, threw my older two into kids groups and then got up to preach on talking to your children about sex! It was hilarious. I would never expect a women to breastfeed elsewhere (will be illegal soom anyway!. Thing is, no-one minded me feeding. I was late this week and someone made me a coffee and bought me some breakfast over! It sounds like you need a Church that is more family orientated and more family minded. Church is not something we belong to, it is what we are - we are the church and should treat each other as such. I live in Leeds and you would be very welcome to come over from manchester and check us out! (www.wharfedale-vineyard.org). We have kids groups from 3 months upwards, all CRB checked, all in site and all fab! If you fancy - give the church office a ring and come for lunch afterwards at mine x (p.s I suspect the visiting preacher needs more 'ministry' than you do..... hehehe )