Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Original poster

Poll for Christians about creation and evolution

131 replies

AMumInScotland · 11/10/2008 17:33

I realised recently that I work on the assumption that most UK Christians believe in some form of evolution rather than direct creation, but I wonder if I'm right or not. I know MN Christians are not necessarily a random sample, but I'd be interested to know at a very basic level whether you believe -

a. all species of life on earth were created in more-or-less their current form directly by God. This may have been in 6 days, or in a longer timescale, but each one is the way it is because God made it so, and there has been only fairly minor change over time and certainly no new species coming into existence because of evolution.

or b. the species currently in existence on earth have evolved from simpler life-forms. This may or may not have been influenced by God to a greater or lesser event. Species have come into existence through a process of change in previous species,

If anyone who does not consider themselves a Christan wants to join in, they're welcome, but could they please give some brief info about their religioous (or atheist) views to clarify.

OP posts:
Acinonyx · 29/10/2008 20:53

I guess I'm a b but without the 'maybe god did it' option. Evolution is an imperfect explanation at present (and is my field of research) but that doesn't make god the right answer.

Marina · 29/10/2008 20:57

Woolly liberal High Anglican
b

morningpaper · 29/10/2008 20:58

I really don't see it as a religious issue. I would defer to a proper actual scientist. The job of religion isn't to say HOW the world came about, it's to delve into WHY it came about.

Original poster
AMumInScotland · 03/11/2008 12:57

OK

a 9
a/b 2
b 24
c 1
d 0
e 3

OP posts:
KayHiding · 03/11/2008 13:11

he he, I go away for a bit and miss all the fun. I'm an a, as ye know

waves pitchfork and sucks in buck teeth

Original poster
AMumInScotland · 03/11/2008 13:23

Hi Kay, thought I hadn't seen you in an age! Hope you weren't hiding from anything too awful.

That makes us -

a 10
a/b 2
b 24
c 1
d 0
e 3

OP posts:
IorekByrnison · 03/11/2008 13:37

Kay, lovely to see you!

AMIS - just wanted to say that I am very glad that you have started this thread on here. I am always amazed at the peculiar ideas a lot of non-religious people seem to have about what Christians believe.

Also agree with mp that religion deals with the why not the how of creation and existence, so there is no necessity for conflict between religious and scientific thought. I am not a real Christian (so can't take part in the poll), but have spent enough time with them to know that this is not an unusual view, at least amongst Catholics and Anglicans.

KayHiding · 03/11/2008 13:43

Also agree with mp that religion deals with the why not the how of creation and existence, so there is no necessity for conflict between religious and scientific thought.

-------

Completely concur with this. Although I hold to the veracity of the biblical account, I do find it very unhelpful that there is this antagonism set up between 'science' and 'religion'. I understand why it happens from the scientific community, but I'm always frustrated by some of the nonsense Christians come out with regarding the usefulness of science. The notion that God put fossils in place to 'trick scientists' is one such load of old cobblers.

Soprana · 03/11/2008 13:51

I'm an atheist, and I believe b) but without the god bit, naturally.

Maybe those of you who believe e) should take a read of Ancenstor's Tale www.amazon.com/Ancestors-Tale-Pilgrimage-Dawn-Evolution/dp/061861916X/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=bo oks&qid=1225720080&sr=1-6 which explains in very clear terms how we descend from earlier species, tracing our shared common ancestors. It's fascinating, and awe-inspiring.

Soprana · 03/11/2008 13:52

Whoops that link didn't really work. And I can't spell ancestor. Won't post again cos not sure what I did wrong...

KayHiding · 03/11/2008 13:54

how's oks&qid=1225720080&sr=1-6 this?

Soprana · 03/11/2008 13:55

Marvellous, KayHiding, ta!

KayHiding · 03/11/2008 13:56

well, it's worked, but the gremlins made it all unpretty. meh.

Soprana · 03/11/2008 13:59

Yeah, that's it, I blame the gremlins... They live in this house somewhere, but I can't find them anywhere. Why is that?

Original poster
AMumInScotland · 03/11/2008 14:04

I grew up within Christianity, but the liberal variety, so always believed that God was the answer to "Why?" not necessarily "How?", and if there were discrepancies between what the Bible said and what science showed, then that was either because people's understanding had moved on, or else that those parts had always been meant in poetic/allegorical terms and not meant to be taken as accurate descriptions. I do find it strange in some of the debates here to find atheists saying "Christians believe X", when a large proportion of us don't believe that at all!

OP posts:
IorekByrnison · 03/11/2008 14:18

Yes quite AMIS. It drives me nuts. I come from a home where religion was discussed all the time, was drilled in my Catechism quite thoroughly as a child, spent 7 years at a convent school, and have subsequently met a lot of vicars and other people of faith, and have never come across the anti-scientific beliefs that are often ascribed to Christians on here.

(I have occasionally come across people who would call themselves atheists who give serious credence to the idea that the pyramids were built by aliens, but that's another story. Thankfully, as far as I know, nobody ascribes these beliefs to all atheists.)

KayHiding · 03/11/2008 14:24

IB, I've only come across those views from very extreme, isolationist types who also believe in lots of conspiracy theories, and only ever on webpages with hideous piped music that you can't turn off.

Soprana · 03/11/2008 15:39

OK, here's what I don't understand. Why is it ok for Christians to pick and choose what they believe from the Bible? Surely it's either the word of god, or not? And if it's not, then why believe in it? I'm sincerely puzzled, not trying to wind anyone up.

morningpaper · 03/11/2008 15:42

I think msot christians see the Bible as being 'the word of God' in the sense that it is the sacred text of their religion, recording the history of their religion, and containing deep sacred and spiritual truths

It is not science

Original poster
AMumInScotland · 03/11/2008 15:50

The Bible records the history of humanity's interactions with God, and their interpretations of what that means and how they should act because of it. It is a collection of different writings done at different times by different groups of people with different viewpoints and intentions. A small proportion of Christians believe that every word of it is there because God wants it to be, and therefore they cannot pick and choose. But most Christians believe that we can learn from the information in it and the views expressed in it without having to apply all of them literally to our own situation, when our circumstances are very different.

Some parts of the Bible even explicitly "supercede" other parts - eg St Paul had a vision which showed that it was no longer necessary to obey the Jewish dietary laws. Other parts are usually thought to have been relevant only at that time and place - eg the instructions to women in a certain early church to cover their heads.

OP posts:
stillstanding · 03/11/2008 16:01

I'm a christian and have no problem conciling evolution with science.

IorekByrnison · 03/11/2008 16:08

What morningpaper and AMIS said.

I never really understand the objection to "picking and choosing". Surely what this means in practice is that you consider historical context in your approach to the text in an attempt to properly understand its relevance, just as you would with any other document. Why would this be wrong for a Christian or anyone else?

Original poster
AMumInScotland · 03/11/2008 16:15

When it comes to an issue like Creation, my view would be that it was never the intention of the writers to say "this is as accurate as an eye-witness account", but the Creation story has a number of important points - God made the universe and everything in it, it wasn't just random, and it wasn't created by a male and a female deity mating. There is only one God. Humanity are in some respect in the image of God - to me, that's about self-awareness and capacity for moral choices, rather than 2 legs etc. So the Bible can be important, without being "scientifically accurate"

OP posts:
onager · 03/11/2008 17:15

But surely many christians do believe X or in this case 'A' since you have 10 that don't believe in evolution in the list above.

And in the (fairly recent) past so many have objected to evolution that people passed laws forbidding it to be taught.

Atheists are guilty of not noticing that so many have abandoned the old ways, but in mitigation I'd say that it's the more extreme views that we tend to hear. (I think there is a name for that, but I've forgotten it. You never get people posting to say they don't have a strong opinion)

IorekByrnison · 03/11/2008 17:47

Onager - I think you are absolutely right about the extreme voices being the loudest. Stories about moderate liberal Christians and Muslims don't make the headlines - why would they?

Of course not all Christians (or members of any group sharing a faith or ideology) believe the same things - I don't think anyone was suggesting that all Christians are liberal Darwinists, but AMIS's small survey suggests that a majority - on mumsnet at least - are.