Poll for Christians about creation and evolution

[AMumInScotland]

I realised recently that I work on the assumption that most UK Christians believe in some form of evolution rather than direct creation, but I wonder if I'm right or not. I know MN Christians are not necessarily a random sample, but I'd be interested to know at a very basic level whether you believe -

a. all species of life on earth were created in more-or-less their current form directly by God. This may have been in 6 days, or in a longer timescale, but each one is the way it is because God made it so, and there has been only fairly minor change over time and certainly no new species coming into existence because of evolution.

or b. the species currently in existence on earth have evolved from simpler life-forms. This may or may not have been influenced by God to a greater or lesser event. Species have come into existence through a process of change in previous species,

If anyone who does not consider themselves a Christan wants to join in, they're welcome, but could they please give some brief info about their religioous (or atheist) views to clarify.

Creation. Definatly

Intelligent design is what scared christians came up with to try and stop looking silly in the face of scientists.

Not that creation is silly its just they felt silly.

Christian, b, all the way. I like to work just about all character traits out from an evolutionary point of view.

A.
i knew what i meant!

Ah, I don't really believe in panspermia, tho it is a cool idea. I'm a fortean so try to keep an open mind about everything really tho usually default to evolution as the most likely.

Catholic
I accept the theory of the evolution of species as true but the human soul was created immediately by God. ie the soul was not the result of biological development.

Don't want to distract from the main question, but I'd really like to understand that one. Does that mean man didn't get a soul put in until he was evolved enough or does it mean ameoba and later primates had souls?

Didnt you know ongar that all primordial slime has a soul! lol

never heard of aristotle eh beeper :-)
onager, every living thing as a soul, here soul means "life principle"., ie whatever it is that causes inanimate matter to be alive.
But only humans have a spiritual immortal soul. The soul of plants and animals is extinct when they die, human souls don't die when the body does.

a 8
a/b 2
b 21
c 1
d 0
e 3

Sweeney - I'm putting you down as "e" - evolution but man is something different/special - even though the others were talking about physical evolution of man being separate, since you're saying that what humanity is like is not just the product of evolution.

Sweeney when did man get this special immortal soul?

See if it was 'when man evolved enough' that god decided it was time for proper souls then you must have had little Adam born with an immortal soul while his poor dad wasn't quite evolved enough.

Can scientists pinpoint when exactly a creature was born who was not a mere hominid but a homo sapiens? If they can, then they can also pinpoint when immortal souls were given to us I suppose.

TBH I'm really not that happy with the concept of our soul being something separate from the rest of our "humanity", though I can't explain exactly why - I have a feeling it's actually a heresy, but I can't remember which one!

My own belief is that the "soul" is actually a term for our self-awareness which make it possible for us to be aware of the existence of God, so it is a consequence of our evolution to this stage rather than something separate.

AMum, what I am saying is no heresy, it's catholic teaching. Humans are body AND immortal soul, and the soul is created and given immediately by God not result of evolution.

Funnily enough I think all the significant things I ever heard about the soul were from priests and not the bible so I had a quick look.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Perhaps someone would say that was a poor translation, but this next one seems to make it clear the soul isn't an addon

Gen 34:3 And his soul cleaved unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spoke kindly unto the damsel.

I tried searching my bible (on the PC) for the keywords immortal and soul and it said none found. Is it letting me down? It never has before.

onager, catholic teaching is founded on the teachings of the Scriptures and the Church Sacred Tradition. I am not sure at what point exactly the doctrine of "immortal soul" was introduced and by which xtian philosopher (Aquinas? St Anselmo? I am sure google knows :-)

From what I recall, the Bible doesn't have much to say about souls - it's more a question of what the church has gradually come up with over time as they work through different questions. I wish I could remember what I've been taught about it before, but it's all a bit vague now tbh. I know I'm uncomfortable about the idea that the soul is something separate, because that can be the start of thinking about humans as being part "physical" - and that is the sinful part - and part "spiritual", and that is definitely not mainstream Christian teaching. I'll have to try to dig out a theology book or two to try to work out what I've been taught about this stuff and what the background is - I find it hard sometimes to remember what I have been told by someone else and what I have come up with myself. Not that either is necessarily correct, of course!

I don't know what is mainstream Xtian and what isn't. I studied Catholic theology for 3 years, as well as attending a catholic school all my life and what I am saying is basic catholic doctrine: "man is 2 and one, a divisible but vital unity".
Where is the sin in saying that humans are physical? We are. We also are spiritual.
From the Cathecism:
"In Sacred Scripture the term "soul" often refers to human life or the entire human person. But "soul" also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him, that by which he is most especially in God's image: "soul" signifies the spiritual principle in man."
And:
"The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form" of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature."

Also from the catecism
"The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not "produced" by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection"
Basic catholic teaching, not sure about CoE or other xtian flavours though

Interesting - it's not something which the Anglican church really teaches about, and we don't do the catechism, so I don't think there is a standard Anglican view on it. I've been digging round, and it's certainly not in the "39 articles" which is one definition of wat Anglicans believe.

It's quite possible that what I think on this one isn't church doctrine at all, but has to do with my own attitude to evolution etc - to me, the soul isn't something separate and given by God, but is an "emergent property" of human's development to the point of self-awareness, so it doesn't have to be "created" or "given", but is just part of who we are from birth.

But I'm happy to accept that what you say is Roman Catholic teaching.

b - Evolution but evolution created (but not steered along the way) by God.

Reject ID.

Thanks MsHighwater - we're now at

a 8
a/b 2
b 22
c 1
d 0
e 3

I believe in creation and don't feel evolution should be taught as fact. I do believe in natural selection to a certain degree. I can believe that the big cats are related etc; and that poodles, great danes, wolves etc are all dogs, but I don't think we evolved from monkeys and I can't work out where the whales and dolphins would fit in an evolutionary explanation.
A linked question would be:
What do you believe abot Noah and the flood?

Intelligent design is not 'b' it's 'a'.

Aciconyx - I realised the error of my ways and made it "c"

With the addition of rlp we're now at

a 9
a/b 2
b 22
c 1
d 0
e 3