Too much religion in Reception?

[Trifle]

I am not religious and don't particularly believe in anything. To discuss Jesus/God or any such subject matter was not something I ever envisaged having to do age age 4. However, since Ds1 started Reception in September he is increasingly coming home with questions about Jesus. I think this stems from him having a particularly religious teacher who told Ds1 at Christmas that he had to say thank you to God. I'm not sure exactly what he was supposed to be thanking him for or what his understanding of God is. Since then he has talked about going to Heaven when you die, that Jesus was nailed to a cross and bled to death and who/what/why did this happen. As it is just a regular state school I cant see the point in them having any religious instruction and would far rather they concentrate on reading and writing. Exactly how much are schools obliged to tell them about religion at age 4 and are they going overboard. The father of one child in his class is a Vicar so came in one day to give a great talk about Jesus which will obviously be biased due to his own beliefs. It surely has to be confusing to a young mind to be seemingly bombarded with so much information. I've managed to brush most things off and dismiss it all as a fairy story but am getting annoyed that I am put in an awkward position by the school who are drip feeding him bits and pieces which he then wants me to explain.
Is he getting more than his fair share?

I didn't say anyone was forcing them, i asked that question of SJ meaning does she accept that others have other beliefs (forcing probably wasn't the right word).

And the curriculum which lockets outlined, to me, is very acceptable. But i am very aware of oldschool teachers imposing their own beliefs on young children regardless of what the curriculum states, such as Trifles sons teacher.

I had to speak to the headmaster of DS1(7)'s school last October, because I felt that there was too much of a Christian bias to the RE taught there. He disputed it strongly quoting, as an example, the fact that they celebrated the Chinese New Year - WTF?

He promptly wound me up further by pointing out how proud he was that there were no Halloween decorations on display as he didn't believe in following evil practices. Not too wise a move considering I am a Pagan.

Sorry Fran.. missed that for a sec even tho I am sitting here like a saddo constantly clicking the 'active threads' button whilst straightening my hair!

. how do you mean? what is my belief? That Jesus lived???? I certainly wouldn't force beliefs on anyone.. and agree with the part of the original thread that states that this is not the way to go... it should be more of a sharing of infromation in a state school.. I think religion certainly has its place in this respect... but having said this, children live with various influences from the moment they are born... primarily from their parents.. and who is the say that parents are right? What is 'right' anyway? It's all relative stuff.. children grow into adult people who ultimately make up their own minds about what they do and don't want to believe. A devoutly religious teacher in early childhood is probably more likely to have cause the child to reject what they are trying to teach anyway, to some degree. (At least IMO)

SJ x

They do now! I think I pulled him up a bit short. There had been mumblings from other parents in the playground, but no-one ever bothered to say anything. I am a little more forthright with my opinions

Actually with SJ there - just re-read the comments and SJ was stating the FACT that Jesus was a real person, historical secular documents show that there really was a man called Jesus. Regardless of whether you believe the rest of the 'story' about him...

Sorry, crossed with SleepyJess, that was for lockets.

Trifle, I personally can't see much difference between explaining Goldilocks or Little Red Riding Hood and explaining the crucifixion if you don't believe in it.

Fairy tales are at least as gory as the Orthodox Christian story (if the correct versions are used HA HA HA HA HA ) but would you be as annoyed by the constant need for explanations about why Cinderella's bitch ugly sister was such a loon that she cut her toe off? (My kids LOVE that bit! )

I think you sound like you're taking the right approach for you - dismissing it as a fairy story. If it gets to a stage where he's demanding a little more than you feel you can give him, I'd just say that it really is just a fairy story, but lots of people think it's true.

Basically, this is irreconcilable - you don't believe it, his teachers appear to, and at some stage preferable to yourself, you have to decide if and when it is worth contradicting his teachers. My DS goes to an Anglican school and I'm a raging atheist, but I always go along with all the Jesus stuff because it's not important enough to argue about and I don't want to plant the idea in his head that his teachers might be wrong about something - I figure that the most important role they have in his life atm is providing the idea of an authority figure and teaching him to read and write - I don't want to confuse him by giving him the idea that they might not know everything! (He'll learn that soon enough and probably sooner than I'm ready to deal with!)

"I don't want to confuse him by giving him the idea that they might not know everything! (He'll learn that soon enough and probably sooner than I'm ready to deal with!)"

oh you put that much better than I 'tried' to further down the thread

lockets - how does the National Curriculum effect what is actually taught in the classroom for RE. I know about the 'act of worship' part, but the lessons themselves still do have a very Christian leaning IMO. Things are better in that they have slipped in a few token things, diwali for example, but I still seem to have a lot of biblical stories repeated back to me by DS.

I balance it at home by giving him my point of view - but do I need to have another run in with the headmaster?

mind you it's even worse when they discover that even their own parents don't know everything

Caligula, I don't suppose you could recommend a book of original fairy stories could you? I've fished around on the 'net for them in the past and not come up with anything. Sorry to post off-topic.

Brilliant, thanks lockets. Shall have a good read of that tomorrow when I am a little bit more awake.

Night night, sweet dreams

Gwenick, I'm hoping to postpone that day until DS is at least 40! Although I suspect DD will cotton on by about next year, when she'll be 4! Must be a girl/ boy thing!

Sorry Charleypops, can't recommend a book, I tend to fish out bits from my memory from the un-politically correct bad old days where both Granny and RRH came to a sticky end (and possibly the wolf too) as opposed to using the books!

But there is a Virago book of fairy tales which as I remember went right back to the root of some ancient tales - that might be of use? virago book of fairy tales

charleypops - there are some original Grimms fairytales here complete with gory details. An online book with 209 stories.

I really don't see the problem. I help run a pram service and my humanist friend brings her children (both under five) because a) she believes that Christian moral teaching is good; b) Christianity is part of their heritage that she wants them to understand and c) she wants them to be open - minded about faith.

We all have a belief, whether it involves a deity or an active rejection of one, and if a person in authority holds to a belief then our children will pick up on it.

So what will children learn from Christianity? To say thank you? (You can explain there's no God to thank, but that there are people to thank, if that's what you believe.) That a man called Jesus taught people about love (fact) but his message was so radical the authorities had him killed (fact) - again, you can explain he wasn't the Son of God if that's your belief. So what else? To be tolerant of others and help those in need ( the Good Samaritan), to look after the planet (the Creation), to forgive (the Prodigal Son)? Anyone object? And it seems a bit hypocritical to celebrate Christmas and Easter without explaining to a child why, even if you don't believe in the 'why' any more.

The best R.E. teacher I ever had was an atheist.

ionesmum - I object because my son has been told that 'Jesus is the son of God', not that he is a historical figure.

I am quite capable of teaching my kids manners, tolerance, respect etc without using the bible as a source.

And for the record - we don't celebrate Christmas or Easter in our house.

Hmm... I think it depends very much on how it is taught. I am a Christian and dh is actually a Baptist Minister, but I would be quite cross if my children were taught 'this is the truth' about Christianity or any other religion. But I have no difficulty in them being taught 'this is what Christians [or Muslims of Jews or ...] believe'.

I think children can, and should, be taught to be critical thinkers - to think creatively and independently. Obviously I would like dss to share my faith (but for themselves) when they are older, and we have always encouraged them, taught them Christian beliefs and stories, and always answered their spiritual questions to the best of our ability; and they have a similar approach at school.

BUT My ds1 (only 7) currently does not believe most of the core theology of Christianity. DS2 is nearly 6, and is a little bit more accepting, but he has still raised eyebrows in Sunday School classes when he has refused to give 'the expected answer' because it is not 'true for him' atm.

BTW lockets, the Act states the the daily act of worship must be "wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character". Just how Christian that is depends on the Head and the govenors. Anything non-Christian has to get approval from SACRE if it is being offered as an alternative.

I can understand why trifle is annoyed - I'm sure I would want to explain the Bible stories in the context of my beliefs and not be constantly saying, 'Yes, some people believe...'.

Well, you're very lucky to have such non-confrontational assemblies. At the school I last taught in, there were bible readings, a short homily on the message to be drawn from this (ie, friendship, shelter, etc) followed by prayers to 'God our Father' through 'our Lord Jesus Christ'. This is in a non-denom state school.