How does Catholicism fail girls/women?

[Spidermama]

I'm particularly interested in the views of Catholics and lapsed Catholics here.

Most of the time no problem. DH and I talked for a very long time before we married and realised that the practice might be different but the beliefs are mainly the same. Did have one aquaintance who did try to convince dh that I was not a christian. His mother also occasionally has a bit of a problem, mainly because dh comes to church with us and both my boys have been baptised. I've also had to make it clear that the boys won't be going to fellowship weeks with the grandparents as I don't want anyone telling them that their faith is "wrong" before they are old enough to make their own minds up.

Women priests is a clincher for me and the gay issue - plus divorce, which also basically excludes you

I was received into the Anglican church - it is so much BETTER and just RIGHTER about things

Ah well, the gay issue being very much an issue there at the moment...

I have thought about MP. I really have. I can't really explain why I'm still Catholic. But I know that I am. For the time at aleast.

But what is 'the gay issue' because nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus say anything about homosexuality being wrong.

So what is 'the gay issue' as far as the Catholic church is concerned and when does it come up?

I don't think Catholicism is unique in "failing" women. I don't think that most Christian churches do much better. But the whole sex is bad except for babies is not a belief that I wish to subscribe to or have my children think. Although funnily my mother (CoE) is worse on this than my father (Catholic). I think this may be because my father was brought up as a Catholic and so is less fervent, whereas my mother was a Billy Graham convert. Interestingly my sister, who was a CoE vicar didn't not see any problem with being barred from progression (ie she can't become a bishop). Personally I think this is blatant sexism, and find the idea of tying in your life beliefs to a system that doesn't value you highly problematic. This quite besides the condoms have holes to let through AIDs debacle...

I think the combination between no contraception AND no abortion is unworkable and discriminates against women.

I think abortion is grossly overused and it saddens me how normal and commonplace it is. I'm not comfortable with contraception either. We don't use it often but when we do I ... Hmmmm .... I'm not sure if I dare say this because you'll laugh.

?

Well, does anyone else kind of feel sorry for and worry about the plight of the sperm in the condom?

Are you one of the Monty Python lot?

I know it's stupid and I don't exactly lose sleep over it but I have a sense of waste.
Probably just part of being endlessly broody too.

lol at the plight of sperm!!!! do you weep over your tampons too?

lol Spidermama, I love the way you think

Would love to discuss more but have an exciting Scrabble party to attend

I don;t know how or why any sane woman could put up with the bullshit about having no rights over one's own body, being told one is a second class human being. the church's policy on protecting rapists and paedophiles by hushing up their assaults, the church's disgusting obsession with sexuality (ie the insistence on celibacy for priests means that most of the men attracted to the priesthood are sexual fuck-ups with nasty attitudes), oh, and it's worrying track record on torture, human rights, corruption, sympathy for the nazis etc.

And no I'm not backing any other superstiton as any better, they are all full of shit. If you really can't cope with life without an imaginary friend, can't you invent a nice fluffy friendly one that you can just talk to without needing to put so much power in the hands of psychotics?

Ex Caholic, escaped as soon as I could.

My problem with the Catholic church (abortion, concraception, priests and women's voice aside) is the role models girls are given. You have either: Mary, the eternal irgin who manages to get pregnant without sleeping with a man (nice trick if you can manage it) Mary Magdalene who, although she in all probability was nothing of the kind, is portrayed as an ex-prostitute and that's about it apart from a few old testament women. Now what does that tell our girls? That in order to be seen as a virtuous woman you have to have children, yet not have sex. grown women can be Madonnas or whores. You can't win. Women are nothing but necessary evils, there for the procreation of children but tarnished the minute they get pregnant.

what slug said...

and what madamez said about the whole set up about attracting and protecting men with serious fuck ups

Where do I start.....!

Firstly maybe to explain my background. I chose to go to an Anglican church at about the age of 10 with a school friend and her family and was confirmed in the Anglican Church at the age of 15. When I went to Uni I decided not to join the Christian Union where you had to subscribe to a statement of belief and conform to their idea of (what I interpreted as) a permanent happy state since no matter what happens in life, Jesus has saved us. Instead I went along to the meetings held by the ecumenical Chapliancy. There we had some good evenings discussing the differences and similarities across the different Christian faiths in a (normally) constructive and non-agressive format.

This got me thinking and I went to a number of services of different denominations including Baptist, Methodist and Catholic. There was just something about the Catholic services that for me brought me closer to God and so about 10 years ago I converted and was received into the Catholic Church.

Why tell you all this??? Well for me any Church is made up of people and one thing we all know is that people don't always get things right. I have a deeply rooted Catholic faith and an understanding of the teachings that go along with that have to play a huge part. For me though, the question is always - what will bring me closer to God? That is why I converted.

Therefore the Catholic Church has certainly not failed me. In fact it's done the complete opposite. There may be aspects of the Church that I struggle with (especially the holes in condoms). I believe it is important that the Church allows us to have these sorts of discussions on this - whether it be in our parishes, families or on mn! The Catholic Church does need to change and evolve but it needs to keep the core of it's values along with that. One of the values that I believe should never be lost - even if it changes it's teaching on contraception - is the value it places on life. This is a most precious gift.

I'm sorry if I seem to have gone off the topic of the op but this is what the op immediately made me think. In terms of paedophile scandals, women priests and the roles women have in the church, then yes much of that is disgraceful but these are issues that many organisations are sadly having to deal with. I know someone once told me that the Scouting movement had twice as many abuse issues to deal with as the Catholic Church. How scary is that!

On reflection, I think one of my biggest frustrations with the Catholic Church is how I can have an impact on the decision making process and these issues as a whole - and that's not just because I am a woman! I guess that encouraging healthy debates like this one is a start though.....

Slug - but Mary (Jesus' mother) went on to have several more children! Does the Catholic church not recognise Jesus' half brothers and sisters? IIRC, didn't one of them (James) write one of the Gospels?

My understanding is that the Catholic Church believes that Mary stayed "ever virgin". The Hebrew word for brother / sister is the same as that for a close family member like cousin which is what's caused the confusion. Tbh, I don't know and it doesn't change my relationship with God or the crux of my faith so I don't let that one bother me!

Fairly pivotal point though, wouldn't you say Ses? I mean, isn't it stretching a bit to have a Virgin Birth full stop - never mind then going on to say that Mary had several other children with Joseph but remained a virgin?

I mean - it doesn't really work, does it? And that's my problem with Christianity in general - if they're wrong about that (which my knowledge of the New Testament suggests they are) then how can you assume they're right about everything else?

But, isn't that the fundamental problem with religion (any religion really) - I mean, it didn't happen, did it?

We understand, scientifically, about evolution. No one really believes Adam and Eve do they?

theSuburbanDryad - sorry you've misunderstood me... The Catholic Church believes that Mary and Joseph didn't go on to have other children. Where some people think that Jesus had brothers and sisters, others think that these were actually other relatives such as cousins. So sorry I personally don't see it as that pivotal...

youcannotbeserious - I don't pin my faith on the fact that Adam and Eve existed or the the Universe was created in 7 days. I do believe that Jesus lived, died and was buried and rose from the dead 3 days later.

I just find all these discussions fascinating. The nature of humanity is that we have different views on issues of faith and we have come to those viewpoints from our own experiences. At the same time though I hope I don't come across as being blinkered and thinking it's only my way or only the way of the Catholic Church as I don't. I just believe that that's what's right for me and brings me personally into a closer relationship with God.

Hope that makes sense!!!?

I don't agree with the church's position on women priests or celibate priests. I think that all the arguments about why deacons can be married can equally be applied to priests. I agree with most of the teachings on abortion and contraception but there is a shocking lack of compassion for and education of women in devoloping countries that needs to be addresed.

My personal experience has shown that women are held in high regard in the church but obviously that is not everyones view.

There is an interesting programme on EWTN called Man and Woman with Alice Von Hildebrand.

youcannotbeserious officially the Catholic church does believe in evolution but believes that man is more than his genes. Lots of evangelical christians do litrally believe in Adam and Eve (including SueBaroo I think)

Aaaah Ses, yes I'm sorry - I did misunderstand you. I was raised as a Baptist Christian, so have the biases which go with that! Which English translation of the Bible do you use then? Because the NIV is very specific about James IIRC!

i know of particularly - erm - devout Christians, who claim that dinosaur fossils were put on this earth to test us, and that the world is obviously only 10,000 years old. It's not logical, it's not sensible, and there's absolutely no scientific proof for it. But they believe it anyway. Such is the nature of faith (which is why i failed spectacularly at being a good Christian girl!!)

Ses you don't come across as being at all blinkered. These are good posts.

I'm really interested in these contributions. Am at a bit of a crossroads and really keen to hear the experiences of others.

At the local catholic church here
a divorcee can`t go up and take the bread and wine.Even though she goes every week
Yet they will let her children from her 2nd marriage do it.

Don`t agree with the their views on contraception and abortion
They need to update to 2008