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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

there is no god, as pronounced by ten year old ds.

69 replies

stitch · 30/04/2008 18:22

how to answer that?
he is too young for scientific arguments
too old for baby reasoning.
and the only reason he is saying this it to wind me up. fortunately i did not fall into the trap this time, but i have done so previously, when i was found to be uttering incredibly stupid things like, 'stop blaspheming' or words to that effect.

OP posts:
Twiglett · 30/04/2008 18:24

you say "well we each have to decide what we believe in. I believe that ........... but if that's what you believe then fine"

end of argument

(for what it's worth I agree with your DS)

Original poster
stitch · 30/04/2008 18:26

yes, but twig, i am sure that you have your reasons. ds doesnt. he is trying to wind me up.

as a parent, i HAVE to teach him about my faith, and his fathers faith. whether he chooses to practices it, or even believe in it, is a choice he can make once he is an adult, but that should be a decision made on knowledge and understanding, not pig headedness, and trying to annoy mom so she will lose it and let him sit in his room and play psp etc for the rest of the evening, iyswim

OP posts:
Ledodgy · 30/04/2008 18:28

If he's only doing to wind you up then the best thing you can do is tell him it's fine not to believe as twig says and he'll get bored.

Twiglett · 30/04/2008 18:35

but I didn't say your faith was wrong, I said how I felt you should approach it .. he is 10, he is on the verge of making his own decisions .

I don't even know what religion you are but if he's confirmed then he's responsible for his own religious beliefs

there is nothing designed to instill atheism so much in a child as an overly zealous parent ...

onebatmother · 30/04/2008 18:35

I really don't agree with you, stitch, either on your duties as a parent, or the point at which your child is capable of choice. He is capable of choice at the point that he makes a choice, imo.

And 'teaching about' is not the same thing as 'insisting he believe'. Not in the slightest.

Twiglett · 30/04/2008 18:37

practice ennui .. let him find his own way and trust that you have already given him enough foundations

Ledodgy · 30/04/2008 18:37

You are so right there Twig dp's parents are extremly zealous born again christians they have six adult children all six are confirmed atheists so much so that dp's favourite reading material is by Dawkins.

Twiglett · 30/04/2008 18:38

I don't know any religion that agrees with him being responsible for his own religion when an adult actually (if you mean 18 that is) .. AFAIK it goes from around 8 to around 13

OverMyDeadBody · 30/04/2008 18:43

stitch I disagree with your point on what he chooses to believe in being a choice for when he's an adult, he is perfectly capable of making that choice now!

I'd agree with Twig, just say something like "that's great dear, we're all free to believe whatever we want to believe" and leave it at that. If you show no reaction he's not winding you up is he?!

I agree with your DS by the way, sensible boy!

beansmum · 30/04/2008 18:50

All you can do is explain to him what you believe and WHY you believe it, calmly and without putting pressure on him to agree with you. He will make his own choice.

beansmum · 30/04/2008 18:50

I think he is wrong BTW

DutchOma · 30/04/2008 20:10

What kind of a God do you believe in if you think He can't manifest Himself to a ten year old? Even if your ds does not believe in God, He sure believes in him. He'll find out for himself, if you give him half a chance.

Original poster
stitch · 01/05/2008 10:13

my parents are very religious.
i am not
i believe in God, but i certainly dont practice. at all...
end of puberty is the time stated in islam. so probly around 14ish. which is why i want him to know how to pray, and learn a little bit about the religion, so he can then make his own choices. i personally am a very bad example. as is dh. but, we made our choices, and can argue the finer points of our religion. which he cannot do, because i have failed to provide him with the information about our religion.

but he is doing this to wind me up. and yes, when i dont rise to it, is best. since i dont practice, i dont expect him to be practiciing, but i do NEED to have enabled him to at least know how to pray, iywim.

OP posts:
KerryMum · 01/05/2008 10:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
stitch · 01/05/2008 10:33

km, i have no interest in controlling it. just need to ensure that i have given him enough informatin to enable him to make his own decisions.
this is actually something that should probly have gone int oparenting. he is doing this to wind me up, the same way he would throw tantrums about other things when he was younger.

OP posts:
Madlentileater · 01/05/2008 10:43

can't you just say oh,that's interesting, why not? Have to say, that if you don't practise yourselves or show any evidence of believing in god, not v likely that he will himself.

KerryMum · 01/05/2008 10:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
stitch · 01/05/2008 10:51

km, this is why i was dead set agaisnt sending him to a church school. thought it was confusing enough to be in a non practising muslim family living in a nominally christian country, and having friends from all walks of life. without having the church school insist he believes in the trinity as well.
i remember your threads on schools.

OP posts:
OrmIrian · 01/05/2008 10:56

"he is too young for scientific arguments"

And they would prove the existence of God how? Surely a belief in the existence of God has to come through personal faith, not scientific argument. It can't be taught. I think all you can do is to ask him to treat others people's beleifs with respect and keep his statements to himself when with believers.

Original poster
stitch · 01/05/2008 10:57

yes oi, that is what i said to him.

OP posts:
pofaced · 01/05/2008 11:02

KM: why do your kids not just leave the class during RE lessons? This is how friends ina similar position to yours deal with in rural Ireland: they go to 3 teacher school in small country parish and just don't do religion class. It's no big deal and you are entitled to take them out of class.

Stitch: I'd just say that his eliefs are his beliefs but that there are cultural reasons why he should know about the faith of his fore-fathers etc... if you appeal to his intellectual sense of self and family you may have more success.It also shows you are treating him as a mature person rather than a kid who just has to do what they're told.

IMHO, living in Western Europe it is important to have a knowledge of judaeo-christianity to some extent: at its simplest, I want my kids to look at great works of art/ listen to glorious music and have some sense of its provenance, without necessarily sharing the beliefs of its creators. Michelangelo's David's beauty is changed by knowing the story of David and Goliath so he (david) is more than just a beautiful muscular boy

AbbeyA · 01/05/2008 11:22

If he is doing it to wind you up then I agree with Twiglett-don't react-just say something mild like'well everyone has their own belief systems' and leave it. I feel from your post that you think that he is too young to make up his own mind, but you are going to have to accept it because any forcing will be counter productive and he will be extremely anti as an adult.

onebatmother · 01/05/2008 11:26

OI have to disagree with you re "keep his statements to himself when with believers."

It's very important to treat others beliefs with respect. But we are all entitled to question them. And we are certainly entitled to state our own position.

I don't believe anyone with a genuine religious faith would be insulted by hearing that another did not share them.

singersgirl · 01/05/2008 11:36

I really think you need to do what others have said. Tell him that everyone must decide what they believe themselves, and if that is what he finally comes to, that is fine. However, until he is whatever age, you need him to continue to learn about his family's religion and to treat it with respect.

nervousal · 01/05/2008 11:42

Agree very much with onebatmother - why on earth shouldn't he question others beliefs? surely it is only by questionning and discussing that he can come to his own decision?

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