Assisted dying bill - if the bill passes do those of strong religious conviction have a duty to oppose it?

[mids2019]

Assisted d dying may become a reality in the UK but if you have a strong two-hour conviction would you lobby for repeal of in some other way oppose it?

For instance in the NHS already many doctors are wanting to distance themselves from such a procedure as it isn't compatible with religious beliefs.

Is the UK ready for such a change of will it become a divisive element in British society?

I’m so so torn on this. I can see the very strong arguments for it, but I have some very major concerns about it as well.

Four example, until social care is free, for me I don’t think I could support it. For example, someone very close to me has just been diagnosed with a terminal condition. Unlikely to be painful, but definitely awful and terminal. Their care is likely to be extremely expensive, which they will need to pay for. They have a strong desire to pass on any money to their child who has disabilities and will likely need every penny they can get to live the rest of their life. I can well see that my relative who’s ill, could feel substantial pressure on themselves to end their life, (if assisted doing becomes available) even though that’s not what they want, to save money from the care costs in order to better support their child. I haven’t heard any arguments to counter that scenario, and I worry about the impact on vulnerable members of society.

Abortion isn't compatible with some religious beliefs I'm sure but there are plenty of doctors willing to help those that need it. The same will be true of assisted dying. I don't understand what all the fuss is over it. If you don' t want to have it or you don't want to administer it then don't - but don't try and stop others that do. You haven't walked in their shoes so why should you be able to choose to force them to live, often with no dignity, pain and suffering. Make your own choices and let others make theirs.

If passing on money is really more important to them than living with an 'awful and terminal' condition then why shouldn't they be allowed to make that choice? I would want to be allowed to make that choice.

I'd be amazed if they made that choice though because I'm sure any child would rather have their parent than money. The disabled child will be looked after by the state if they don't have money (assuming levels of disability that make independence impossible), but if they are left money then that money will only go on their own care anyway and is likely to be used up pretty quickly.

@Tina159 my point is that if this becomes law I can see that they would feel pressure where previously they wouldn’t have done because it wasn’t an option. Wouldn’t be a problem if social care was on the state, but that’s highly unlikely imo.

I hope not. Obviously individual doctors who don’t want to get involved for whatever reason shouldn’t have to, same as for abortion care.

But i don’t think general members of the public should be opposing something which many people could potentially find helpful. If a religious person doesn’t want to use it they don’t have to but please don’t dictate to others. Personally I have a chronic health issue and am already in substantial pain and this is going to get worse. I’d imagine at some point I’ll be delighted to be put out of my misery.

@DanielaDressen but unless you are terminally ill or the bill changes, you won't be able to.

Guess I’ll have to go to Switzerland then. 🤷‍♀️. But hopefully it’s baby steps, we have this for a few years for terminally ill people only and then it gets extended.

It's a highly contentious debate and obviously we have parliament to make decisions. I would think two-hour leaders would be objecting during the debate but in reality we are in a much less religious society.

I suppose though those of belief may find it difficult to live in a society which allows assisted dying without at least continuing to advocate against it.

Personally I am from on this. Originally I was very much for the removal of unnecessary pain but there needs to be huge safeguards surrounding the process. We also have the question about severe disabilities and degenerative conditions.

The issue is where this generally goes when you have government funded health care. Would you be happy with pressure to die now, because you are expensive to the NHS? Or on the day you were diagnosed? What about the child of the person that would, would you be comfortable with them being pressured into assisted dying, because they are expensive too.

Absolutely, could not agree more. I always think the religious element is such a red herring because there are so many things in life that are not compatible with people’s beliefs on either side of the coin. I had to have an abortion 15 years ago because of health reasons, I don’t see what on earth that has to do with anyone else, let alone anyone else’s religion, and if anyone tried to tell me that it was their business I would give them short shrift.

Is assisted dying a euphemism as it in reality is suicide under medical supervision? The drugs need to be administered in some fashion by the patient; they definitely not will be delivered by a medic. As in reality we have a managed self ending of life is the sanctioning of suicide which may be problematic for those of faith?

Honestly I think this is scaremongering. Other countries have assisted dying without people being pressured by the state to do it.

You’re misreading the bill if you think that there is any pressure involved. It is about choice.

I’d say the majority of people in this country aren’t “of faith”. And such people including myself would be annoyed if people who believe in fairy tales try to derail a useful bill.

We all of us have the right to kill ourselves at any time. We need the assisted dying bill to ensure that those who are no longer able to do this because they are so ill, have the same rights as everyone else. Why should people have rights removed from them because they become frail?

Ultimately is this a tension between individual liberty and what the state can force us to do or not to do? It's a very interesting debate to what extent we as members of society can restrict the liberty of others through beliefs about what is best for society as a whole.

We see in the US how differing state opinions on abortion leads to a complicated picture.

There is no state force here. Other than that I agree with you. But let’s be absolutely clear that choice is not force. And body autonomy matters.

Have you seen what happened in Canada?

Should there not be imporvments in palliative care alongside this? I think a lot of medics by instinct would steer their patients towards a palliative pathway as opposed to something quite absolute like assisted dying which is more an existential problem than a medical one.

Should doctors be in any way out in a position to make judgement about someone's conviction to want to die? How does severe depression for into this pucture?

By force I mean having laws that aim to prevent acrion...Apologies wrong use of phrase.

Except people are pressured ro keep people alive for as long as possible regardless of whether its humane to do so. Not just doctors but family members who can't let them go even if they are suffering or in pain.

I believe in God but also support the bill. To me a loving compassionate God would not have any issue with assisted dying (as long as the safeguarding is rigorous). I feel sorry for anyone who believes their God would prefer people to suffer.

One country out of many. Lets not use thay one example as the reason for not having it

taking faith out of it, it is VERY concerning that funding for hospices and eol care, generally care for older and disabled people is so dire in this country but all the debate and attention is being given to this. We need to fund decent end of life care as well. For obvious reasons. For full disclosure I am religious but sometimes I don’t think it’s helpful to bring religion into it, as immediately the ‘let’s not listen to silly people who believe in fairy tales’ argument will be brought out. I am sure many people of all faiths and none share my concerns.

I agree that this type of scenario is a worry.

It is infuriating that people that there are people who have worked hard and paid tax all their lives and yet when they need help and care at the end of their lives, they need to sell their house to pay for it.