Justin Welby's position is untenable imo

[Kosenrufugirl]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/nov/11/justin-welby-personal-link-john-smyth-church-abuse-scandal-resignation-calls

100% agree.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0015411John Smith John Smith Winchester college Winchester college

Wasn’t just the C of E (today’s news) who covered up John Smyth’s industrial scale sexual abuse of boys & young men. Winchester College did too, signing a “gentleman’s agreement” with him at the time. Listen from 47m 47s to my Mary Whitehouse Archive on 4

Shame on Winchester college who refused to comment when they were contacted last night.

Welby has now resigned. John Smyth. Jimmy Saville. Mohammed Fayed. All of them men outed once dead because leaders who knew failed to act. Very angry for their hundreds of victims - women, girls and boys.

I am almost through reading the report and I agree Welby has done the right thing. If anyone has quite a bit of free time it is worth reading the Report - https://www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2024-11/independent-learning-lessons-review-john-smyth-qc-november-2024.pdf

I read it @Xenia, it is horrifying.

Shouldn't he have been sacked?

I'm not a regular on this board. Does anyone who has insight into the workings of the CofE know how the whole "lessons will be learned" cliche might play out? Will they have to do a complete overhaul of their approach to safeguarding or might there be any other transformative changes or just business as usual with a new ABC? Is Welby popular in the church or is the church's perception that he has left in disgrace?

People have a mixed response to Welby. Some really admire him and others well , don't so much.

I read the Makin report. I think in part he was guilty of naivety in 2013. He was told it had been reported to police and to the church in South Africa but actually this hadn't been done in any proper way. So because he was in charge at the time his head is on the block.

However, he was extremely slow to "meet" with survivors - 4 years- and this was zoom- not in person.

I think there might be other senior C of E leaders who have also failed in the management of this situation ( at least one is named in the report) and it would be a shame if the ABC resignation means that people want to draw a line under it at this point. There are other senior leaders whom I also thing will need to resign and the whole issue of safeguarding management at the "top end" of the C of E needs to be rethought and addressed. I think it is usually fairly good at the parish end with a lot of volunteers working very hard. I wonder how easy it would be for a parish safeguarding person to take action/be heard though in some parishes if the person of concern was a Vicar or more senior leader.

He wasn’t ‘employed’ so he couldn’t be.

He is taking the fall as a moral message that if you lead you are responsible which is a very good principle for the UK. However I am not so sure he did much wrong. The Smyth man, the abuser was a QC when he got involved in Scripture Union type holiday camps and at a public school. He was not a Church of England minister. In fact the church rightly refused various applications from him. He only gave up the bar when the early 80s scandal came out and he went off to Africa to carry on.

The report mentions a police lady's comment at one point which seemed quite wise to me - the problem they had in prosecuting is none of the boys from the public school as far as they knew wanted to be involved in any litigation and wanted privacy; secondly when Smyth continued beating young men after they went to university they were over 18 and said they consented (although it may have been so bad consent is not permitted in English law - so bad Smyth's wife at times provided nappies for young men to put under their clothes to stop blood showing - terrible terrible).. Thirdly the alleged abuser was in Africa and extradition would be difficult. The C of E safeguarding lady in the report at later stages said she was dealing with a report of a case against someone or other every two weeks so that sounds like Smyth was one of about 26 such cases a year so they were absolutely swamped. I am not excusing anything and am not even Church of England, but I am very grateful to the men who wrote to people in Africa to warn them and one of the victims seemed to do good work in the UK well before the 2017 TV programme in about 1982 saying stop Smyth or else I will go to the press.

Smyth had a wife????? WTF. Evil pair.

Re "lessons will be learned" - this is spouted after every single abuse inquiry in the CofE. Nothing changes.
I do hope this will be a wake-up call the man-in-the pews can't ignore.

Welby knew him personally and donated money to his organization (IIRC) how can refusing to meet with victims and refusing to look at the way (specifically) Christianity was used to abuse boys and deceive their families comport with his high role in the Church? How do these men keep getting away with demanding fealty and respect as learned doctors of the church and when caught failing to act suddenly pretend they have no duty of care? How does “I thought the police would deal with it” or “anyway it was in Africa” make sense given Welby’s claim to being a minister in a Christian Church? Did he think it was a purely bureaucratic job? Did he think that compassion and care for those suffering boys was just something he could “pass by on the other side?”

From Private Eye in 2017

Smyth was a lay reader in the church of England. He was refused as an ordinand because his actions were an open secret and it is likely those who assessed him knew of what he had done but it wasn't made public and not enough was done to warn leaders of the churches in Zimbabwe and South Africa.

I was talking about this with a colleague who wondered what John Smyth might have 'had' on Justin Welby. I do think that if Justin Welby had any inkling that John Smyth was not acting impeccably, he had a clear responsibility to do everything he could.

I continue to be amazed a the wickedness of (mainly) men! Time and again, it emerges that men who were trusted have behaved horribly. Pps have mentioned Jimmy Saville and al Fayed but I think also of Prince Andrew and about how every so often men finally are ready to talk about scout leaders and local sports coach and I see a pp about how there were 26 cases like this per year.