jonathan sacks thoughtfor the day today...

[Monkeytrousers]

What a load of blood rubbish!

I think he was suggesting that children should be at the centre of life and not pushed to the edge of our busy working lives; that speaking to your dad for half an hour a day is pretty pathetic compared to the time spent in front of TVs etc.

What did you hear that upset you so much?

We got quite annoyed this morning (but then we are atheists...) I saw his point initially - that children might be better off spending more time talking to their parents and less watching telly -well that's kind of obvious. But he doesn't half get on his high horse - and he has an annoying voice.

We call it "moralistic claptrap for the day". DP says if it was really a "thought for the day", it should be a proper thought - like "I wonder why clouds are so fluffy...?" - followed by a long silence

Oh I so want your dp to be on thought for the day - I'd bother to listen to that

The text version is here:

Me too snowleopard - but I just heard it as ta comment on how in his faith they put into practice the "keeping children at the centre of life" view that he was discussing.

And yes leaders of any religion sound smug for much of the time with their droning preachy styles...Rowan Williams...aaagh!

I do find it odd when anyone compares time doing X with Y and get anything meaningful out of it.

It's like saying how many years we spend of our life asleep, or on the loo ... and then trying to extrapolate by saying "well we read far less novels than we spend on the loo, therefore that's bad".

Well... how much time do you want to spend reading. Are you doing it? Find the time from somewhere else if it's important to you. Where that time comes from will depend on the person and their priorities. It's nonsensical to do comparisons without context.

So to extrapolate... how much time to children need to have 1 to 1 with their parents... and how much would you both like... are you happy with how much time you are spending now? If not, find the time - what you sacrifice to get that time will vary from family to family and what other people think is "wasted time" will not be what you think of as "wasted time".

Some of your best companionly time might be sitting down together to watch Dr Who and talking about it...

Very, very true RD. What you're doing and its value isn't measured in minutes alone.

By the same token we're often told by childcare gurus to take a step back, stop hovering and let children amuse themselves.

Also perhaps the rabbi JS might like to join a circumicision thread on here to give himself an idea of how some people feel that's not a paticularly child-centred practice to be carrying on

Didn't hear the piece but Jonathan Sacks is extremely annoying, I find. He really grates.

Absolutely right regarding not hovering over everything you child does. And the time thing is a complete red herring - a 2 year old obviously needs more attention from mum and dad than a 12 year old.

And "quality time" while an overused phrase does have a point - are you spending that time dragging the kids around the supermarket (well yes actually, but I don't count that as part of my "time" with the children - just a necessary evil) or are you sitting down with them and doing something you both find fun?

That was about the only good idea he had in it Gagarin ? Not upset at all ? just incredulous. What was he on about ?empires all fall but Judaism has survived 33 centuries? because we tell our children about Jesus. Gah!

LOL Snowleopard

Well - prob not Jesus...!! Maybe Moses..

That was it - the beginning - thinking that "children have suffered badly in the modern world"!

I don't disagree that some do, but suffered as much as children not in the modern world?

It's all ludite, post-romantic nonsense isn;t it.

rant over

Yes - it makes light of what real suffering is, doesn't it?

"Those that worship things that perish, themselves perish. The wealthiest and most powerful empires all eventually crumbled and turned to dust. Yet Judaism, the West's oldest faith, still survives, not least I suspect because thirty three centuries ago, in the book of exodus, Moses told us never to forget to teach our story to our children."

and this is coming perilously close to saying that we deserve the bad things that happen cos we worship gods of a different image to the one true god.

All very veiled and nasty I think