Atheists and proof cont….

[Kdtym10]

A carry on from the previous thread

I think the secularisation cult is one of the worst things that has befallen society.

Could you please explain 1) what is the secularisation 'cult' and 2) why is it so bad in your opinion?

I believe the teaching of the Bible about the life to come on the strength of the evidence for Christianity. In my view there is good evidence for Christianity. That’s why I became a Christian after three years looking into it in my late 20s. I feel that if someone wants to find the evidence they will find it, and if they don’t want to there is no point in me writing about it. Plus I can see that debates with atheists online can be hostile and long-drawn out. So I don’t want to debate with them about this.

I do admire the energy, resilience and intelligence of @Kdtym10 (while not sharing all her views). She just seems to keep coming back with answers whatever. If I had the energy, mental robustness and time ATM I might debate the way that she does, even if I wasn’t sure it would achieve much. But I don’t.

In case anyone on this thread is interested in the evidence, I can suggest a few places to start looking.

List of arguments for Christian theism, with links, at the end of this blog post:
https://winteryknight.com/2021/06/10/j-warner-wallace-different-answers-to-the-question-why-are-you-a-christian-3/
(I do not agree with much of what this man posts, but I like this list.)

Animated short videos on the evidence and arguments for Christianity:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3gdeV4Rk9EfL-NyraEGXXwSjDNeMaRoX&si=QAaWuZTCfoUBO8sX

YouTube videos of debates by William Lane Craig or John Lennox.

Reasonable Faith website:
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/

John Lennox’s website (see Resources):
https://www.johnlennox.org/

J Warner Wallace’s website (see Articles and Videos):
https://coldcasechristianity.com/

JWW’s book Cold Case Christianity is all about the evidence (as a cold case homicide detective, he thinks that way):
amzn.eu/d/5OvYC06

Presentation by Frank Turek on his book I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist (IDHEFTBAA):
https://www.youtube.com/live/gfHZJq-pV8M?si=yIfHtD423BvKXTE4

The book IDHEFTBAA:
https://amzn.eu/d/4ANIOfv

Frank Turek’s website (see Resources):
https://crossexamined.org/

Evidence for the resurrection:

a) Blog post
https://crossexamined.org/the-minimal-facts-of-the-resurrection/

b) Book that convinced the agnostic scholar Holly Ordway
https://amzn.eu/d/hlfwi56

Lee Strobel is a former award-winning journalist who converted from atheism in his 30s after examining the evidence. Among other books, he has written Is God Real?
https://amzn.eu/d/dnkWTLR

David Wood’s video account of what changed his mind as an atheist in his 20s, and a diagnosed psychopath in prison for attempted murder. (He was psychopathic but intelligent. He thought through the evidence. Since he left prison he has not harmed anyone. He also gained a PhD in philosophy.)

I guess it is defining atheism as some sort of cult? But how that’s proved to be a bad thing when half the wars going on at the moment are over religion is beyond me.

It's clear that you believe yourself to be specially gifted, as 19th-century 'visionaries' Blake & Coleridge believed themselves to be. I see an alternative explanation for their outpourings: they were physically and mentally frail individuals who, having the good fortune to be educated and well connected English men, found encouragement where others more often found incarceration. Coleridge's "higher imagination" was no doubt assisted by his opium addiction.

Only six minutes after the quote above, you posted "in the 19th century people thought the white Christian male was the height of evolution". It's almost surprising that you don't see how that belief supported the 19th-century white Christian males you idolise.

At least all these “primitive people” didn’t destroy the world with its science and technology - @Kdtym10.

You must be fucking joking! Humans being human have laid waste to lands and cities, destroyed the arts and learning of millennia, annihilated whole populations, raped genomes out of existence, murdered, mutilated, enslaved and oppressed fellow humans by the millions. They've invariably performed these acts of devastation under the banner of some deity or other.

Science and technology have always been pressed into military service. They have also provided clean water where there was none, eliminated many of the worst diseases and controlled many more, reduced hunger, provided shelter, reduced illiteracy, increased knowledge and improved communications. Science and technology proceed with or without religion; religion slows them down or interrupts progress at times, but also uses them.

You do realise the difference between razing a village to the ground and making the entire planet uninhabitable don’t you?

@Skye99 / you don’t want to debate with atheists even though this is a thread about atheists!
Im a card carrying atheist - don’t believe in any gods, spirits, resurrection, heaven or hell. Am not looking to take up any faith as can’t see any benefits in doing so.,

@Skye99 I'm afraid none of your links provide ANY evidence of this supposed "new and much more amazing life, with no bad parts."

Re the idea that most wars are caused by religion: the Huffington Post published this in 2012.

//In their recently published book, “Encyclopedia of Wars,” authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare.//
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/is-religion-the-cause-of-_b_1400766

I have also read that out of the ‘wars caused by religion’ category, 4% of all wars were caused by Islam and less than 3% by all other religions put together.

You do realise Blake never went to school don’t you???

I think you will find Blake and Coleridge were long gone before the evolutionary trope put white Christian men at the top. In any case, as a non conformist Blake wouldn’t have made that grade, buried in the non-conformist unmarked grave. A grave they only located in the last 10 years. Hardly shouts out privilege does it?

im afraid “opium addiction” does not have the same connotations for them as now. Although some people do use stimulants to reach their higher imagination. Although as Huxley commented in his “Doors of perception” people like Blake can access this higher world with no such stimulants.

Can I reach this higher imagination? Yes absolutely. Does this make me “special” no. Anyone can through one means or another. But it takes work, belief and commitment sometimes over life times. I believe we all get there eventually

Yeah, the vast majority of "religious" wars have actually been about land, resources and control of trade. Gods provide excuses and motivation.

Can I reach this higher imagination? Yes absolutely.

Go on, then @Kdtym10, describe it to us.

I mean you have only got to look at the Albegensian crusades, on the face of it a religious wat (literally) but the shout of “kill them all God will know his own” when someone questioned they were also killing Catholics indicates the war wasn’t about religion at all but, as most recognise- it was about land grabbing.

You have to reach it for yourself I’m afraid. It’s beyond words.

I didn’t say they did. I said, ‘I believe the teaching of the Bible about the life to come on the strength of the evidence for Christianity. In my view there is good evidence for Christianity… In case anyone on this thread is interested in the evidence, I can suggest a few places to start looking.’

And I’m the absence of God. There would have been something else. Protecting ways of life, protecting economies, protecting this group or that.

I would be interested

I started reading your reply about Coleridge and thought the exact same thing about white Christian men 😅

Can I reach this higher imagination? Yes absolutely. Does this make me “special” no. Anyone can through one means or another. But it takes work, belief and commitment sometimes over life times. I believe we all get there eventually

I write some absolutely corking romantic fiction, if I do say so myself. Does that constitute accessing my higher imagination? Because it really does take a lot of imagination, fun as it is to do. Or does a higher imagination only apply if you use it to access concepts of the divine?

Maybe the divine is accessing your higher imagination? I’ve not read any of your fiction (except on here) as far as I’m aware so cavtvreally comment. If you have written 50 shades of grey - probably not!😀

🤣 Oh, please try. Borrow from your favourite visionaries where their experience matches yours. I'm interested in the extent of difference from more earth-locked experiences such as inspiration and being in "flow", an exercise high, an orgasm, being in love, highs and trips on drugs, extreme fatigue or pain, psychosis, hypnogogia ... any of the gloriously varied natural human sensations.

Well. Your dates are out😀

Nah. It’s an individual private experience. Try it for yourself.

This is the definition from the Encyclopedia Britannica:
"Atheism, in general, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings..."
Atheism- definition

So basically from a scientific and evolutionary point of view believing in gods/spirits is efficacious for human flourishing.
(as pointed out in the previous posted articles about better health, mental and physical, and spiritual belief)

I thought atheists were utilitarian but now understand it's a belief like any religion.

Interestingly if you read the humanist society website it really does read like a religion. A statement of beliefs, rituals. , the lot. It’s quite funny really.