Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

Your definition of a "divine" that originated the universe but is otherwise unknowable has very little content that could be proved or disproved. Clearly this divine entity could somehow reveal itself and claim that it was the originator of the universe, but to prove it, this entity would need to demonstrate that it could do what it claimed whilst also holding an observer separate in order to observe it.

what proof do you want though, that’s the original question
What proof do I want of your "internal feeling or knowing which is not objective or really fully explainable"???
Can you not hear what a ridiculous question it is. You're just on a wind-up.

The accusations against people for being “combative” when they ask questions and offer challenge is also peculiar to religion, and dogmatism more generally. That’s why religions invent entire categories like blasphemy. You can’t question me! Religions really are touchy and brittle.

The rational mind does not work in this way. A mathematician isn’t mortally offended if you say that 2+2=5. He will just think you’re wrong and be interested to know how you arrived at the answer just in case he is wrong. Religious people always accuse the non-religious of being closed-minded but it’s actually the other way round.

OP a number of people have said that to believe in god they would need god to present himself to them physically, whether from the sky / performing a miracle. They might have said they wouldn't respect or worship god but they have answered your question re what it would take to believe god exists.

Do you find that (god would need to physically present himself to me and perform a miracle, for example) to be a satisfactory answer?

I don’t believe in any god nor do I believe that miracles happen

if that’s their answer then that’s their answer. The whole question is subjective, each person will know what will satisfy them.

I’m not sure about the term “ satisfactory” as it would indicate there’s a right and wrong answer.

So you have an internal feeling of knowing the universe was created by a consciousness.

I don't have that. So it's not very convincing to me that you do? To me it's not logically consistent that if that's the only way in which the divine manifests itself, it doesn't do so for everyone.

If I had a strong internal conviction that each of us has a true name connected to our spirituality, and that your true name was Booboofishface, what would convince you that I was wrong? Wouldn't you also find that quite easy to dismiss?

It’s interesting that you say that about acquisitions of being combative in those circumstances is peculiar to religion as you will see from this thread most of these accusations have been levelled against me by atheists.

I’m not sure about the term “ satisfactory” as it would indicate there’s a right and wrong answer.

You said you were disappointed with the lack of responses to your specific question, so I wondered if you were including those answers in that disappointment or if you felt those ones did answer it.

To clarify I didn't mean satisfactory as in right or wrong, I means satisfactory as in were you satisfied that they had answered your question?

Well, as that is their perspective then they have answered the question. It has to be said those answers are few and far between though, but I’m grateful for those who have responded - yes.

I am so so glad, you found my christian faith offensive. I hope the offense cut you to the heart and produced a lot of pain.

Goodness. Is this answer in keeping with the values of the faith you claim to hold?

What would Jesus do, as you believe in him and believe he was a kind and loving son of god? Would he tell those who didn't believe that he hoped they felt cut to the heart and in pain? Probs not, tbh.

It's one thing to say you reject people's words and tone but quite another to wish direct harm to them. I can't think of anything less 'Christian' (by the values Christianity claims) than that.

Well, as that is their perspective then they have answered the question. It has to be said those answers are few and far between though, but I’m grateful for those who have responded - yes.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm glad you're able to accept and respect at least some of the answers given.

I would gently say though, that if someone sharing their perspective = answering the question, all answers are valid.

But I’m not trying to convince you of anything.

if you had a strong internal conviction my name was Booboofishface then nothing would convince me you were wrong. That’s always what you would identify me as, even if you put on a facade of using another name. If you called me that, I might respond, I might not! If I felt it was important to you and you strongly believed it was I would probably go along with it to the extent it caused me no harm.

Yea I noticed that too, I think much of the frustration is because people are talking different languages, as you say.

Religious people do not react very well to having their ideas challenged though. They think that the questioning of their ideas at all is taboo. I think this is significant problem.

That’s not true though. I would discount some of the answers that were basically aimed at insulting me. I would say even those answers that simply said, nothing would convince me were valid as they were answering the question and I respect their convictions.

I think that is true of anyone wedded to an ideology.

Although I do have to say I’ve had some really good discussions here about the role of say Paul in Christianity with some Christians on here so I think there are many Christians for example who are open to reasoned debate, just like some atheists are.

Jesus was a normal person, not the son of god and had no special powers. No evidence.

I do believe in miracles and I was inspired by the story of Jesus. It actually happened to me too. I went into Lidl’s to buy a loaf of bread and came out with a loaf of bread, a tent and some garden shears. Explain that.

Atheists should really not be having any say in such thread because they do not believe in God. Duh

@Parker231

Jesus was a normal person, not the son of god and had no special powers. No evidence.

Yes that is my belief too.

My point was that the poster who wished pain and harm on people on the thread does believe that Jesus was the kind and loving son of god. And Christians are often commanded by their faith to ask 'what would Jesus do'. So I was pointing out that their actions (wishing pain and harm on others) are completely incongruent with the beliefs they claim to hold.

Shouldn't have a say on a thread titled 'atheists and proof', that was created specifically to ask atheists a question? That seems a bit of a silly thing to say.

Now here I agree with you (in part) I like Blake’s quote “Jesus Christ is the only God and so am I and do are you”. That sums up my position on this subject nicely.

I would totally agree.

Jesus was tempted in the desert, in rainy Britain we have the middle aisle of Aldi and Lidal!😂