Unhappy about Dd fasting for lent

[JamNittyGritty]

Dd 13, has recently become interested in religion and has decided she is Christian / Catholic. Rest of us are not religious.

i have been trying to be supportive, bought her a bible, talked openly etc.

However she has now decided to fast for lent, not just give up something like most do, but fully fast except for water from sunrise to sunset. I have explained that it’s not necessary and many people choose to give something up and full fast is not required as an expression of faith, but she is adamant.

I am really uncomfortable with this - first she’s only 13, she small and slim and can’t afford to lose weight, she went through a phase of highly restrictive eating / eating disorder about a year ago that lasted a few months and i just think kids need to eat! She is currently on her period and I know in Islam women don’t fast during Ramadan on their period but she’s still going to fast.

Am I being unsupportive and unreasonable? Can anyone who is Christian please help me guide her / share info that I can discuss with her so that she does a less restrictive fast?

I am really quite stressed about this!

Can I just say I am discovering that a lot of children with eating disorders as teens end up being diagnosed as being Neurodiverse (I was one of them). I think it is driven by the need to control something in their lives when their lives and body are changing so much. Please see professional advice - I have a neurodiverse teen daughter and at your daughter's age due to her developing brain and body - things might get worse before they get better.

I don't know any Catholics who fast for Lent.

Agree with PP who says this is the eating disorder. Good luck OP.

As a Christian, fasting is supposed to bring you closer to God, and should be undertaken carefully and very mindfully. I do some form of fast about once a year. If weight loss is on the back of my.mind, I give something else up instead.

I'm not a Catholic, but do know that lots of people who want to fast but can't, can always find something else to replace a full food fast. Cut out sugar, coffee, soft drinks, social media, or do a "40 Days of Kindness" challenge, or a 40 day Bible devotional for girls.

As a Christian, I would say that God knows the heart and He won't want us to use the time of Lent to do something that harms us, but rather to get to know Him better and to be used to bless other people. There is a time and a place for exploring fasting practises in the future, but a 13 year old newcomer to the faith (with a history of eating disorders) should be getting to know the theology of her faith and growing her relationship with God.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Similarly, my niece overcame her acute eating disorder but then decided she was "intolerant" to many foods - it was her way of maintaining control over what she ate but in a way which no one could argue with.

In Muslim countries with a large Christian population this is a thing as a Lent fast.
But it's vanishingly unlikely she'd know this and this is definitely something to put your foot down over. I would revert to whatever eating disorder advice you had before.

Hello OP, I,m sorry to hear this.
I have attached a photo of a programme me and my daughter and I are following (I think you can download it from the CofE website)
I'm intermittent fasting for dietary purposes, but it comincides with Lent. Normally, I try to give up crisps or chocolate. Fasting like your daughter has suggested is extreme.
Suggest this book, as if she's serious about Lent, it's all about the prayer and journeying with Jesus to the cross, not going without food.
I would maybe take her to church so she can see what it's about. All the best OP

One of my best friends is a vicar (albeit CofE) and she wouldn’t ever tell a child to fast for Lent (nor an adult). She would encourage her to do something good instead every day, an act of kindness, to read the Bible, to pray and to develop a healthy relationship with Jesus.

She needs to choose something non food related otherwise the devil will use this to damage her relationship with God

Are we still doing the hellfire thing in 2024?

If four of her friends are doing it too then I would flag it to the school.

It's usual to fast in the orthodox church for lent, but for the ordinary congregation (ie non monastics), this just means eating simple, balanced vegan + shellfish meals at the usual mealtimes, and abstaining from excessive/luxury/treat food like chocolate and desserts etc. And anything basically that draws us away from God... so social media, excessive secular entertainment, recreational shopping etc.

It's especially stressed that it's not for children (not sure of the cut off age) nor invalids, elderly, pregnant women, those with eating disorders etc. It's also always done under the guidance and agreement of a priest who you discuss your particular health and ability needs with and suggest a modified version if a vegan diet is too difficult, eg wheat or legume intolerance. It's also not a requirement, but a voluntary ascetic discipline.

It's really important that excessive religious scrupulosity is not adhered to, as this is the source of spiritual pride, the deadliest of the deadly sins. It sounds like there's a competitive element with her mates, which again is antithetical to the spirit of fasting... it's meant to humble us, not to be vain in front of friends. It's meant to be in secret before God:

“And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you." Matthew 6:16 - 18

I'm not sure what the fasting requirements are in the Catholic church (I know it includes more fish than the orthodox), but she's not a Catholic, so she shouldn't be strict fasting anyway... just the usual "giving up unhealthy stuff for Lent" at this stage, eg Tiktok & chocolate. If she wants to get more into it, she should start attending Catholic church and youth catechism classes, and have a spiritual father to guide her in the practices of the church.

As PPs have said, fasting is to bring you closer to God.
You're not supposed to tell anyone you're doing it... Although I wouldn't tell anyone with an ED this!

Most Christians just give up things for Lent, rather than eating altogether.

And nutrionally;
"Intermittent Fasting (IF) involves alternating between eating and fasting periods... The traditional approach says children between the age of 8 to 16 should not be doing intermittent fasting since, at this age, their body requires a lot of nutrients to grow. With intermittent fasting, fulfilling all the nutritional needs may not be possible due to the long fasting hours".

These are some Bible verses about taking care of your body, including by eating;
https://scripturesavvy.com/bible-verses-about-taking-care-of-your-body/

Including;
What Does the Bible Say About Taking Care Of Your Body?In 1 Corinthians 6:19-20, we are reminded that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and we are not our own. Therefore, we are called to honor God with our bodies. This means that we should take care of our bodies and treat them with respect, as they are a gift from God.
As Christians, it is important for us to maintain good physical health, as it can positively impact our ability to serve and honor God. Scripture encourages us to eat and drink in a way that glorifies God (1 Corinthians 10:31), which includes making healthy choices and avoiding behaviors that harm our bodies ...
In summary, as Christians, we are called to steward the bodies God has entrusted to us, recognizing that they are a reflection of His image. By making healthy choices, incorporating exercise, and prioritizing rest, we can better fulfill the purpose God has for our lives and be equipped to serve Him to the best of our abilities.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20“Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.”
This verse reminds us that as Christians, our bodies are not our own but temples of the Holy Spirit. It emphasizes the importance of honoring God with our bodies through taking care of them. By prioritizing our physical well-being, we are showing reverence to God who created us.
Our bodies are precious gifts from God, and when we neglect or mistreat them, we are dishonoring Him. This verse challenges us to engage in self-care practices that promote health and vitality, enabling us to better serve God and fulfill our purpose.

Yh. Sorry but this is an eating disorder not lent (ive dabbled in both unfortunately) - you give up meat/dairy/sugar ect. For the 40 days of lent (& in england pancake day comes first to use up said sugar/dairy!)

Absolutely noway will she be doing nothing but water for over a month either she eats with the family or she spends the Easter holiday in hospital - her choice but you must hold her to it

This is not Catholicism. Apart from the worries of fasting which definitely sounds like a resurgence/continuation of her ED, I would be concerned about where she is getting her religious information from. I'm sure many teenagers are interested in religion (although most are not!) but it would be very easy for a vulnerable individual to fall down a rabbit hole of fundamentalism. Are you sure her friend is mainstream Catholic? Is your daughter now attending Mass, any talk about making First Communion, Confirmation? That is more the kind of thing I would expect, other than fasting.

There are NO fasting requirements for Catholics, other than on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, when meat should not be eaten! It is common practice to abstain from a ‘luxury’ during Lent, but that’s usually alcohol, chocolate, sugar (or, increasingly, social media).

I wouldn’t muck out with this, get her to the GP and on waiting lists for ED support if she isn’t already. My cousins daughter is in a residential unit as her anorexia is so bad. It can spiral so quickly and the wait lists are so long.
Don’t accept not eating. The longer she does it the worse it will get.

This is a classic ED trick OP. They’ll try to find a disguise like healthy eating, or a cast-iron excuse like an ‘allergy’ so that no one can dare push back against them. This is just a way to engage with the disorder publicly without anyone to inconvenience her.

Like PPs have said, the Bible in no way shape or form condones this behaviour. It sounds like she hasn’t ever actually read the Bible. Tell her you want her to commit herself to reading the 4 Gospels and she’ll move on to a different excuse soon enough(!)

I'd be telling her pretty firmly that if she wants to fast for lent, she needs to do it within the actual boundaries of a recognised religion etc. I'm not buying that a 13 year old has decided she's religious but is making up her own religious rules - that's bollocks. So I think contacting a church is a really good idea as a first step. I'd be very surprised if any churches would be supportive of this level of fasting for a 13 year old.

I have not heard of christians fasting for the whole of lent like this. We have some extended family who are muslim and when they're fasting they're very clear that it can't be done if the person is too young or there are other issues around health.

It sounds more like her ed rather than religious conviction but fasting during daylight really doesn't mean weight loss if she eats enough calories before sunrise and after sunset - my Muslim friends gain weight during Ramadan due to rewarding themselves with deep fried snacks each night! Try to get her to add a 2 egg cheese omelette to her existing breakfast, then in the evening add a bit more food and a dessert - the individual steam puddings plus custard perhaps, not good for most of us but ideal for someone underweight.

Unfortunately this is all too familiar to me as my dd has done the same in the past, and it certainly wasn't her c of e vicar's idea ...

I think any decent priest would tell them this is not a requirement (and I think making up your own rules is considered vanity at least).

it would be far more meaningful to abstain from social media and give up the time to contemplation.

Don’t be ridiculous. This is a competitive eating disorder that’s been fuelled by 4 of her peers. The religious aspect is a total red herring that’s she’s deliberately using as a smoke screen. She didn’t even bother buying a Bible, OP was just kind enough to get her one!

Religious scrupulosity and psychological/eating disorders are a compounding combination that especially needs to be guarded against. The mind is being deceived by distorted cognitive processes (the snake in the garden) and is amplified by personal pride, expressed in vain piety. Such excessive scrupulosity acts to lead us further away from the love of God, and we need the guidance of a priest/spiritual teacher to help us keep to the path that leads us closer in to the divine centre. Making up your own spiritual rules is paganism, not Christianity, and can lead very off piste spiritually and psychologically. Charity, prayer, scriptural readings and humility are far more important Lenten practices than monastic-level ascetic fasting standards.

“For pride is spiritual cancer: it eats up the very possibility of love, or contentment, or even common sense.” C S Lewis

We are Catholic and my children went to a Catholic secondary school. Fasting was not encouraged partly bacause of kids with eating disorders, instead the kids were given a chart with a suggestion of something to do each day which would involve thinking about and helping others. Might be as simple as making a cup of tea for your Mum without being asked. Maybe you could suggest this to your daughter? Steer her away from the food aspect and explain how inconviniencing yourself to help another is equal in God's eyes as not eating. If you think it miy help you could maybe add that fasting can actually be seen as a bad if taken to extreme as it may cause her harm and others will need to look after her. This is just a suggestion as something you can do at home but as well as this I do think you need to be worried that her eating disorder is returning and get advice from whoever was treating her previously.

No need to be rude. I believe we are agreeing with each other that this has everything to do with an ED and susceptibility to being influenced by whatever excuse gives her a cover for it, and nothing to do with religion.

I'm a practising Anglican and on the voluntary staff of a Cathedral.

I know of people who are giving things up for Lent but I don't know of anyone who is actually not eating during the day. Fasting during Lent is not one of the tenets of the Anglican faith.

I'm somewhat bewildered by her statement about fasting between sunrise and sunset, as my understanding is that this is the basis of Muslim practice during Ramadan. It sounds to me as though she and her friends have learned something about Islam at school and mixed it in with what they know about the Christian faith.

I wonder whether the teacher who teaches that area at school would be able to help. I would certainly speak to someone at school. I know having gone to a girls' school how quickly these things can catch on and I think that it's important that the school is aware that there are several girls fasting for Lent.

Contacting the female vicar is a good idea.

I'm worried about the fact that there is a group of girls at school joining her in this. They all need to be eating nourishing food throughout the day to make the best of their lessons and sports and so on.

Something I know having had an eating disorder in my teens is how tricky its manifestation can be. It can appear in a disguise for want of a better expression and young women do attach themselves to innocuous 'good things', such as keeping fit, being a vegetarian or religious faith, as a kind of shield behind which to hide as they become more enmeshed in the eating disorder.

I can't tell you how important I think it is to pick up on these things in young women. I wish that I had been able to steer away from eating problems as a teenager, but I wasn't and cutting out food and then going on binges became a real source of torment in my life in my twenties and later.

I think that advice from other people is what is going to help you in your case; they will be aware of the dangers of what your daughter is proposing and will know how to steer her towards something better for her.

I think that this is the 2024 C of E publication for young people in Lent, by the way:

https://www.chpublishing.co.uk/books/9781781404485/watch-and-pray-child-single-copy

Be sure to speak to the Beat helpline of course, if you that would help.

https://www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/get-information-and-support/get-help-for-myself/i-need-support-now/helplines/