Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Do I apologise to my mum and brother? A Christian perspective please……

36 replies

LogInMyEye · 24/01/2024 17:28

Sorry, I don’t suppose this is the place for a complicated family saga, so no worries if no one has the stamina for it. I am trying to be good and also to take responsibility for my own faults and bad behaviour.
Context: my mother is emotionally abusive to my father. My theory is that she is on the autism spectrum, and that her masking and extreme defensiveness, combined with her significant emotional difficulties born of great sadness and loss in childhood has resulted in a level of personality disorder and some narcissistic traits. She is capable of being kind, and often is, but it is often performative. She has a bit of a saviour complex. As she gets older she is increasingly aggressive and difficult, mostly angry and falls out with most people. She gaslights and bullies my dad.
My brother (DB1) 50yo was always a lovely laid back guy. He was also a big pot smoker in his youth. Apx 18 years ago he started to talk about conspiracy theories (chem trails, a few Jewish families ruling the world, he’s been boycotting Israeli products for years, literally any news event he will have an alternative take). I tend to avoid talking to him about politics, although in recent years we have had a few overlapping agreements (we both object to wokeness) but I have always had to cut off the conversations as he always veers in to conspiracy theory.
A few weeks ago he called me and for 20 minutes bullied and barracked me about my views on the Middle East situation. (He does not believe Israel has a right to exist, he believes “they” (!) exaggerated the Holocaust to use as leverage in negotiations to secure Israel. Lots more, but you get the picture.) I told him I did not want to talk about politics with him. When the conversation ended I messaged him to say I was saddened he had attacked me like this and reminded him of an event which was due to cause a lot of sadness to me and my family. He responded that he didn’t really know what I was talking about and he didn’t know why I was annoyed. IMO gaslighting me. I let it go and we had a couple of productive conversations wrt Christmas arrangements. We were hosting Christmas for 12-14 people at our home.
On Christmas Eve morning I was shopping and preparing for a gathering that evening. DB1 phoned me to check that I did not have a Star of David on top of my Christmas tree. For context, a few years ago I had a silly comedy political tree topper, but I have no idea why it suddenly occurred to him that I may have a Star of David tree topper; he said that he had been worried about it the previous night and this had kept him awake! My response was not what it should have been. I refused to tell him whether I did have a s.o.d. Tree topper, but told him that I certainly would not be speaking to him about politics over Christmas on the basis that I thought his politics were absolutely deranged; I never want to talk with him about politics again. His views are mad etc. I was furious and lost my temper. I probably said more. I don’t think I did, but I may have said he’s antisemitic.
He arrived with his family the following day. 25 minutes late for Christmas dinner (16:25, so not exactly early in the day). He hardly said a word to me for the two days he was here. His oldest (13yo) questioned dh and I separately about our tree topper; (a fairy which had fallen off in protest, as it happens). He and his family, whom I love, ate our food, slept in our beds, and afaik enjoyed our hospitality. He has not texted or written to thank me, he has not communicated at all despite my dc sending thank-you cards to them, plus his dd’s birthday present.

Mother arrived on Christmas Eve. She’s extremely difficult company, but we manage. Christmas Day evening she started telling (loudly in front of 4 or 5 grandchildren) DB2 that he was overweight. He must be drinking too much, eating too much, looks fat. I asked her to stop and it escalated; I told her that I was not prepared to allow her to be that rude in my house. (I was probably deflecting, and actually wanted to tell DB1 that if he was not prepared to accept whatever I put on my own Christmas tree, then he was not welcome in the house!). Mother stormed off to bed, then stormed back to physically front me, then stormed off again and went home (100miles away!) first thing the following morning. (DB2 is divorced and was driving back to collect his DDs, so she got a lift with him.)
When DB1 got up he said he was also leaving. I assume his DC persuaded him to stay, as they did stay another night, as originally planned.
The thing is, I’ve spent a good couple of weeks nursing my wounds and couldn’t really work out why DB1 was not speaking to me; assumed it was my political position on Middle East which bothered him, which it definitely does, but I’ve realised that he is doubtless also upset that I was so rude to him about his political views. I think I have reached a point where I could apologise for this, and this alone, by text, without needing him to understand my position or apologise himself. I think I just need to clear my conscience. The relationship is altered, maybe it’s destroyed, but at least if I apologise for what I did wrong then that feels like the right thing to do. What do you think?
Wrt my mother. The relationship has been pretty much dead for a long time; I don’t feel sadness or loss about it anymore; I’ve done a lot of work coming to terms with this. I feel sad for her that her life is such a wreck, but also I am much more relaxed and content without her in my life. She has a history of taking tiny apologies and accepting them as being an admission that she is right about everything. I’m not even sure what I should apologise for; maybe telling her that I wasn’t prepared to accept her calling db2 ‘fat’ in my house. I was being disingenuous; db2 is capable of fighting his own battles, and I could just have left it and walked away; it’s no skin off my nose really. I would just rather leave things with my mother and hope that when there is such a time that we need to communicate, she will do so sensibly. Would a Christian perspective support essentially cutting off from my mother?

I have learned that it is not sensible to host my entire family again, especially at Christmas. I find the total silence from DB1 very hard to deal with and I feel like I should try to extend an olive branch, but also accept that nothing might change. It just feels sad.

Thanks to anyone that actually read this. It’s been quite therapeutic writing it all down. Sorry it’s so long.

OP posts:
JustExistingNotLiving · 27/01/2024 11:51

Personally I’d text him and apologise for being so rude to him, you love him deeply and worry you’ve hurt his feelings.

This would be what most people would expect you to do.
But I do have a couple question (and it applies to both your DB1 and your Dmother)

Do you LOVE them?

can you really say you have a deep sense of love towards them after all that happened? or is a sense of duty, care maybe, feeling you should.
Im not saying to not send an apology of you think it’s right to do. But I believe your apology should be true rather than right iyswim. Otherwise to me, it’s just hypocrisy.

And why do you think you’ve reacted so strongly to their actions at Christmas?

My experience on wanting to be compassionate, is that it can easily become you lowering your boundaries and accepting what you shouldn’t accept.
There are things that shouldn’t be accepted, regardless of how compassionate and accepting you are.
The issue imo is more about being able to express the disagreement strongly but still staying compassionate towards the ourson iyswim

But if you try to ‘just’ to be compassionate and accepting, there is a point where you explode (or at least that’s my experience!) because the actions/the views etc… are simply not acceptable if that makes sense.
Eg your db1 specifically ringing you to have a go at you about your beliefs on Israel is not ok.

Mustardseed86 · 27/01/2024 15:06

Cantalever · 27/01/2024 11:33

Mustardseed86
That's a good point. By "political" I was including every controversial subject and conspiracy theory that OP and her brother might disagree on over a family Christmas in her home, and want to avoid to prevent arguments there and then. But in general, yes I totally agree, anti-semitism and all forms of racism should be called out loud and clear at the time. I have done so with more distant relatives in the past, who supported apartheid in South Africa, and lost the relationship. With OP's brother it seemed better to avoid his extreme delusions initially, at Christmas, and hope he can see sense going forward. OP may be able to suggest better sources of information for him if communication remains open.

That's true. Sometimes it's difficult to know whether it's best to take a direct approach or try and skirt round it in the hopes of gradually getting through to them over time. It's sad to see a beloved family member go down such an awful path.

I guess Christmas isn't the best time to have these conversations, but it often happens that way because everyone is together and conflicts can come to the surface.

Mustardseed86 · 27/01/2024 15:08

But if you try to ‘just’ to be compassionate and accepting, there is a point where you explode (or at least that’s my experience!) because the actions/the views etc… are simply not acceptable if that makes sense.

This is very true too!

LogInMyEye · 27/01/2024 18:36

Thank you so much for these thoughtful replies. I really do appreciate the consideration you have all given to my dilemma.
@Thegreatestoftheseislove I really like the Proverbs you posted, and I agree that it is only possible to control myself; an invaluable piece of knowledge. Also, I agree that the anger I showed towards my brother does not sit well, and I do need to apologise. However, I can't in good conscience apologise in a vague way; it needs to be specific. My brothers views are pretty abhorrent, I can't in any way give him the impression that I have sympathy with any of them. It's a tricky position because I am apologising for being rude and insulting, but if he turned and asked me if I believe he is antisemitic, and if his politics are deranged, I would have to say yes........

the more I think about it, apologising to my mother is not an option. She is still abusing my father and is specifically focussed on Christmas atm (although there's always something) and if I apologised to her in any way, she would double down.

I agree that politely blocking future controversial conversations is definitely the way forwards.

OP posts:
LogInMyEye · 27/01/2024 18:38

@Mustardseed86 I couldn't agree more. My brothers views are abhorrent and as a consequence our relationship is damaged. I don't want to lose him and hope that we find a way of negotiating a different relationship which is less close but still meaningful, and does not require me to ever listen to his political views again,

I can't apologise to my mother.

OP posts:
LogInMyEye · 27/01/2024 18:53

@Cantalever and @Mustardseed86
thank you. Much appreciated. Interesting watching to discuss this. I think believing in conspiracy theories is like a cult, DB1 will never change his views based on anything I say. He has gone down the rabbit hole and I really don't think he will change. I do not need to be a part of that and I refuse to condone it in any way. However I am prepared to ignore it.

@pickledandpuzzled yes, agree, thank you

@JustExistingNotLiving this is an interesting question. I love my DB but can see that it is probably essential that there is a greater distance between us, and I don't think that causes me pain,although estrangement would.
I don't think I do love my mother. Something died in the relationship after my son was born 15 years ago and I stopped caring in the same way. After that she was no longer able to play power games with me. She has become a destructive force and that is sad, and I'm sad she does not have a meaningful relationship left which she hasn't destroyed.

Thank you so much everyone.
The greatest advice I have received is to pray on this and not to hurry in to any action. I'm rubbish at the praying but ideas and thoughts are coming to me. I will keep trying.

OP posts:
Thegreatestoftheseislove · 28/01/2024 18:27

@LogInMyEye You are doing okay and I'm sure you're not 'rubbish at the praying' - it's merely a conversation with God, and pretty much as you have chatted to us here. He knows the situations and your heart already. If it were me, and I have had similar situations in the past, I ask that He stops my heart from hardening, to keep it soft and loving towards those who hurt me. I ask Him to help me forgive. I ask for His wisdom and to give me the right words to say at the right time.

If you speak with your mother and brother with truth, and from a pure and kind heart, you will be fine - they are responsible for their own responses, if any. Regarding your brother especially, I would hope that your gentle response but with a definite 'the views you have expressed are abhorrent' may be enough for him to start questioning himself. You have already ensured your mother has lost her power over you and I have an understanding and empathetic arm around your shoulders for that.

LogInMyEye · 28/01/2024 19:51

@Thegreatestoftheseislove You are so kind, and I really do appreciate it. Thank you.

OP posts:
LogInMyEye · 20/10/2024 22:06

Hello all, I'm jumping back on here to update because I feel a bit broken by the whole thing,

Back in March my DB called me and tore strips off me for 55 minutes. His diatribe consisted of several very bad faith analysis'of my personality and past events, and also several blatant lies. It was dreadful.
We haven't spoken since, but we have texted and are meeting up as two families in a couple of weeks (for the record, at my family's expense and effort). He hasn't apologised for either his behaviour at Christmas or his horrible phone call.
Then last week, my mother told my dad that she is still very angry with me for calling my DB 'fat' Christmas. She is angry she had to defend him against me. (To be clear, it was her who called my DB fat, and I defended him, rightly or wrongly).
I don't know why I'm sharing really. I just feel sad about it all.
I'm still trying to be Christian but not doing a fantastic job at it; I don't feel much further along that I did when I started this post. I'm not trying hard enough and I keep forgetting about God. How ridiculous is that?!

OP posts:
Mustardseed86 · 20/10/2024 22:32

I'm really sorry to hear that @LogInMyEye . It sounds very painful, not just your DB's behaviour but your mum taking his side. I'm sorry I don't have any great words of wisdom, but I'm the same way in that I don't always feel I'm the best Christian, I get distracted and other stuff takes over but I always feel a sense of peace when I come back to God. Even amidst the most difficult of situations, it really is 'the peace which passes all understanding' and the source of my strength (such as it is - I still go astray a lot!)

Don't be discouraged. God doesn't forget you for even a moment, and He is overjoyed when we go to Him with our needs. I think it's normal to have that tension of being pulled between the 'world' and God's ways, just never be ashamed to return to Him.

LogInMyEye · 20/10/2024 23:40

Oh bless you @Mustardseed86
Thank you. This is what I needed to hear. I've been thinking that God doesn't want me, but I think it's that he wants me to work a bit harder. I don't think I'm going to be gifted a Damascene moment, and that's because, in all honesty, I don't deserve it. I need to work to find this gift.

Anyway, I opened a bible on Proverbs 15:1 earlier as recommended by someone further up this thread, and I felt a teeny tiny something opening in my heart.....

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page